| Author | Message | ||
  Linda |
Impossible. PO49 is a virtuoso soloist. PY42 is the best supporting actor/actress. PY97 is perfect to save the planet from "the cads!" Raw Sienna, ask any artist, is to be loved for its very own self. Raving reviews also for PY110 - so unexpectedly clear! and PY151 - a workhorse that does not tire. Then, oh how I dislike admitting it, !!how I try to stay away from it!! when one requires the light of a yellow that glows all by itself on the paper, as if the electricity is on, (Gads!) cadmium yellow. Oh! Painful. Yes, I feed Earth for this, I compost. | ||
John Preston |
Has anyone tried W&N's new Turner Yellow yet? Was curious and I'm always looking for the "perfect" yellow / yellows. Also I like nickel titanate yellow which they have a.discontinued or b.relabeled as Lemon Yellow according to Handprint. Anyone know the scoop on that? | ||
Zoe |
John - I have an old Grumbacher that is PG36 and PY3 and I think it is too green, but if you go lightly with the PG36, you might really come up with something nifty. And after looking at all the yellows with the light hitting them, I think you might find you like DS's alternative. | ||
John Preston |
Thanks, jdaneman, I've got sour lemon (PY3) and it's good for mixing certain greens but far higher chroma than I'm looking for. Mixing a very miniscule amount of pthalo green with quin gold seems to work. Nickel azo yellow still sounds interesting and eventually I will probably try a tube. | ||
jdaneman |
I should add that Nickel Azo Yellow is quite opaque at full strength and rather pastel. It's a nice "floating" yellow, but for staining and glazing, I wouldn't use it. I use DS quin deep gold to glaze (mixed with gum arabic.) This gives paintings a strange, old-masters look and is fun to try on a realistic portrait or landscape. I have not tried AJ Sour Lemon to glaze, but could be fun! | ||
jdaneman |
Hi John! Madam ex-chemist here, see if these hints help you find a green-tinged yellow with staining properties: 1. Arylide Yellow is PY3, and is also known as Hansa Yellow. It stains. It is a Lemon Yellow, so is light but definitely on the cool side, not the warm side as is Quin gold as you point out. Am. Journey's Sour Lemon is a reasonably good Lemon Yellow. If you despise it, you can return for another choice of paint. I use it as a clear yellow and I like it a lot. 2. PY184 Bismuth vanadate-molybdenate (say that fast with a mouthful of Cheerios!) is a more opaque yellow that stains but has some lift and is a sub. for Cadmium Yellow. Schminke makes a nice one, but you don't find Schminke much in the US (Artisan's in Santa Fe had it I think, I worked in Germany for a while, and it was the only paint they sold, just about. ) Van Gogh is also PY184 in Perm. Yellow Lemon, not a bad paint. Winsor Bismuth Yellow is similar. So, for availability, I'd try the WN. 3. PY175 is Benzimidazolone Lemon Yellow Depending on how it is ground, it can be pure yellow or more orange. Winsor Lemon is this pigment. It is less cool than some lemons, to my eye. More a pure, chromatic yellow. | ||
John Preston |
I guess I'm looking for a yellow that is duller than cadmium or hansa but higher in chroma than yellow ochre or raw sienna, biases toward green and is a stainer. Could I be fussier? Quin gold is perfect but biases orange to my eye. Daniel Smith has a quin gold green shade in their oil line. I'll bet I can get what I want buy putting just a smidge of pthalo green with quin gold. I generally avoid pthalo and forget to try it. | ||
Zoe |
Glad we get it cleared up, some, John. Paint colours and the numbers are not always what they seem to be cracked up to be, but I'm still in a learning curve. What colour did you mean? Curious! | ||
John Preston |
Whoops, we may be talking about different yellows. I've used PY53 nickel titanate in oils. Definitely green biased and I like it. M. Graham's azo yellow is PY151 while D.S.nickel azo is another pigment altogether: PY150. Handprint definitely describes it as an earth yellow but it looks like an easy lifter, so not the pendant to quin. gold I was looking for. | ||
Zoe |
John, I don't want to mislead you but I do think it is would fall in the earth tone yellows. If you look at that big colour wheel at handprint -- Nickel Titanate, Y53, sits to the right of yellow ochre, and is very pale in comparison. It definitely has a "green" bias. Perhaps it is like an unripe lemon, still on the vine :) Hope this helps you decide whether it is worth adding. | ||
John Preston |
Zoe, Is the D.S. nickle azo an earth tone yellow? I'm always needing a sort of high chroma earth yellow. Such a color is easy to mix but I often use it as a first layer and the earth color component tends to lift. Quin gold often works but it biases orange somewhat and it would be nice to have something like it that biases green too. | ||
jdaneman |
A single yellow? Would have to be DS new gamboge or Indian yellow. I love those golden yellows. I also like AJ's "Sour Lemon"--Hansa yellow, but I find I prefer the warm yellows overall. | ||
Zoe |
John Preston, better late than never, I hope. I like DS's nickel azo yellow very much, but like Graham's azo a little better - more punch and very pure looking! But they are both worth having if you are a colour junkie like I am :) | ||
Robert |
After all of this handwringing and expense, having tried almost every yellow out there, I am backing off and going back to my three yellows palette. It works wonderfully and the effort to find a single yellow has not paid off (though I thought it was a good idea in theory). So, for the record, my three yellow palette is: ..Grumbacher Finest Lemon Yellow (Hansa Light) ..Rembrandt Cadmium Yellow Medium (same hue as W/N Pale) ..Maimeriblu Indian Yellow (isoindolone yellow deep plus quin. gold). But6, FYI, The single yellow that i found the fits the bill of being a good mixer, a mid yellow, lightfast and transpareent is strangely enough the most ignominious: Grumbacher Academy Golden Yellow! | ||
Robert |
By Trish on Monday, May 10, 2004 - 11:00 am: According to Wilcox, Holbein Permanent Yellow Light contains PY55, a diarylide, which is a fugitive pigment and PY53, nickel titanate. Wilcox says that this "permanent" yellow faded dramatically in his tests. Tish--I went to the bookstore to research all this myself. Wilcox's book does say this!! Darn, Just when I finally had a yellow I liked after so much searching! I noticed Tom Lynch's book and started to read it. He uses exclusively Holbein transparent colors and the pernmanent yellows are on his palette. This is so confusing. Tom Lynch, one of the most well known watercolorts' alive uses this yellow. The lable on the tube says PERMANENT Yellow and yet Wilcox says it fades dramatically!!. This is so frustating. I am conducting my own lightfast test and just before I typed this I received 8 tubes in the mail of Permanent yellow by Holbein. I feel like throwing up my hands and saying "if it's good enough for Tom Lynch it's good enough for me." Why is Holbein marking a highly fugitive color (according to Wilcox) as "Permanent???????????????????? | ||
Robert |
My understanding is that Quinacridone Gold emerged as an automobile pigment and the art suppliers got some from the auto industry suppliers. The pigment manufacturers have stopped making it for the auto industry and the supply is gone. Daniel Smith has supposedly horded up years worth. Perhaps some of the others have too. However, there are no longer any current suppliers to the art paint companies. Since it is a component of many brands of mixed greens (as well as a color one its own) some companies will have to do some scrambling. Holbein now uses it Permanent Yellow Deep pigment in its mixed greens instead of quinacridone gold. Thie Per. Yellow Deep of Holbein's is a great pigment. Of course it is a full chromo yellow, not a muted one like Q. Gold. | ||
Kukana |
"This is good for them since quinacridone gold, the normal pigment in these mixes, has been discontinued by the suppliers." Has Quinacridone Gold gone the way of manganese blue and not available to anyone anyomre in its true pigment? | ||
Trish |
According to Wilcox, Holbein Permanent Yellow Light contains PY55, a diarylide, which is a fugitive pigment and PY53, nickel titanate. Wilcox says that this "permanent" yellow faded dramatically in his tests. | ||
Robert |
Non- granular and seems to be basically non-staining. To test it I washed it on some watercolor paper (rough) and was able to wipe it almost clear, with slight stain... very slight --almost impreceptible and very pale. Holbein permanent yellow light resembles in hue Cad Yello Pale by W/N. Holbein Permanent yellow deep resembles W/N Cad. Yellow in hue and the Holbein Permanent yellow lemon resembles Cad. Lemon in hue. The hue matches are uncanny with the W/n--I mention this for your reference. If you have sampled most of the yellows in the market like I have hoping to find something that is strong like cadmium and doesn't have a strong green undertone, you will be delighted with this line. Evidently Holbein has discovered a new yellow pigment and uses it not only in these yellows but to mix their sap green and a few other convienance mixtures. This is good for them since quinacridone gold, the normal pigment in these mixes, has been discontinued by the suppliers. The more I try Holbin the more I like their paints--but they have a few fugitives so you must be careful. | ||
jj |
Robert - Is it staining or granular like some of the cadmiums? | ||
Robert |
Oh--I failed to mention it is in hue indistingusihable from Cad. Yellow Pale by W/N. | ||
Robert |
I started this thread with the (for my specific issues anyway) insight that a single yellow might focus all the colors in harmony. I think I am right here. I tested all the yellows I had on hand--a considerable variety--and settled on Cadmium Yellow Medium (Rembrandt) --this is almost the same as Winsor Newton Cad. Yellow Pale. I then realized I'd need a second yellow to mix transparent colors such as greens and browns (my palette is now only a couple of reds, a couple of blues and a yellow so the yellow enters every color except bright violets). So for a trans. yellow I selected Daler Rowney Perm. Yellow which is similar to a cross between winsor yellow and New Gamboge. Again I had 2 yellows. I wanted one. Then I went to the art supply store and picked up Holbein permanent yellow LIGHT. It mixes identically to the cadmium above and is altogether as intense--I have never seen a non-cadmium yellow do all that a cadmium could do in terms of beautifully natural mixed hues plus high intensity !!!But this yellow does plus it IS TRANSPARENT!! Handprint does not list it --it is new--but I am sold. This one yellow will do the work of at least 2 yellows and so far it is a major discovery for me!!! Am I a happy painter! | ||
Robert |
More on the yellow problem. I've discovered a new one that works better than the others in my opinion: Holbein Permanent Yellow Light. It's pigment content is unique --not used in any yellows of other brands. It's about perfect. | ||
Robert |
Okay--I think I've solved my dilemma. I going to use 2 yellows of the same approx. hue--cadmium Yellow Med. (Rembrandt) for intensity and Permanent Yellow (Daler Rowney) for transparency. Thus the color characteristics will be focused and harmonized but I can get around the muddiness of the mized greens when using Cad. yellow. I am limiting my palette to these 2 similar yellows plus Cad. Scarlet, Quinacridone Violet,French Ultramarine, Cerulean, plus Pthalo Blue, and Pthalo Green for mixing darks. I just shipped about 50 tubes of earths and other stuff to cheap joes to donate to brushes for vincent. I am going to stick to this limited palette. For me, a big move but I think the unity of the paintings from a limited palette (and only some colouts from this one in any given opus) will improve. After 40 years of painting this should be interesting. | ||
Dake |
If left with one choice W&N raw sienna would be it. I paint alot of figurative subjects and find rs as the most versatile for covering all types of natural fleshtones. As much for what the others wont do for what Raw Sienna does. Raw Sienna,Bnt Sienna and Fr Ultramarine are my flagships. If all other pigments were to somehow disappear from the face of the earth there would still be exciting art being produced with these 3....the holy trinity. | ||
ricky |
For a few years I just used only Indian Yellow and Cadmium Yellow as my yellows... I also do not really like the greenish of the Cad Lemon, but love the clear greens it makes with Pthalo Blue...Then I experimented with Raw Sienna it works low key but well as a main yellow and just add touches of Indian Yellow as a higher key, these accents will catch you, and and the viewer... These yellows work well with Ultramarine Blue and Permanent Rose (a Winsor and Newton name, that is a quinacridone..) (Or is it a quinacridon't) LOL, Sorry!!! For your darks, do Burnt Sienna and Ultramarine Blue. This as a nice palette to try... Cad Lemon Indian Yellow Raw Sienna yer yellows Permanent Rose Burnt Sienna yer reds Ultramarine Blue Phalo Blue Cerulean Blue yer blues Make a color chart, and then have at it, all these combos make nice things...and are unified to the eye also. Try each permutation...even the "threes" can be useful at times. | ||
Robert |
About Yellow-- This last 2 weeks I've been going out and doing my plein air watercolor thing and have produced nothing by crapola--the sort of things you would line a bird cage with. This comes off of about a month when I could do no wrong---I produced 21 excellent paintings in a row and now the current ones seem like I've never painted. I think the reason is that I'm trying to be looser and more left brain and quicker. But the colors are not working. Why?becasue I have four yellows--Lemon (Py3), Cad. Med., Indian, and Raw Sienna. Jumping from one to the next with my brush in one painting is causing the colors to seem too loosely related to one another. I went back to a lot of the artists I admire and noticed many only use one yellow--new Gamboge is the most popular, then cadmium, then raw sienna. I absolutely hate the orange / green double undertone of new gamboge. I use cadmium well in terms of color creation but it's opacity takes something away from the freshness of the painting. Indian Yellow by Maimeriblu (isoindalone + quinacridone gold mix) won't work because it carries absolutely no green. Maimeriblu raw sienna is, according the handprint, the most saturated raw sienna available and produces some nice grayed greens, but is a bit too limited. I'm starting to want to find a single yellow so I can guarantee color harmony in plein air paintings. Based on the verbal description in handprint,I was thinking about trying Damiel Smith Indian Yellow. It's a different pigment that anything else on the market. Anyone have any opinions about its use as a single yellow. I like Daler Rowney's Permanent Yellow a whole lot--its a very mid yellow, like Winsor Yellow, but carries a bit more green. But it is a full chroma yellow and for landscape a slightly muted yellow is better for me. However, iff someone could convince me that I can paint landscapes with only Cadmium Yellow Pale, that would be great (because Cad. Yellow carries the right amt. of green and red for my mixing needs). What secret do you have for getting past the muddiness and opacity in mixes???? | ||
jj |
I love aureolin, because it is less staining, more transparent, and most temperature neutral -- between warm and cool. (In my opinion.) | ||
jandrle |
I would choose cadmium yellow medium. Why? Because it is the only yellow that I have used consistently my entire painting career. Yellow is my absolute favorite color, always has been. Not just for painting... for everything. I love Indian Yellow, recently started using Auorelian Yellow... both more exciting... but also more limited for me. Cadmium yellow is strong, pure, warm and versitale... And a great stand alone in darks and lights. It feels closest to nature to me. I once worked in a photo shop doing digital imaging... the owner saw blue, I saw yellow. There is a lot to that... all people's vision doesn't see the same way. He was constantly telling me that what I was imaging was TOO WARM... I always thought what he did was TOO COOL. Just another slant. To me what I have said is totally subjective, with no science or theory behind it... but I am so committed to yellow I just had to post my thoughts! Happy painting... Jane | ||
John Preston |
That's an interesting insight about the yellow defining the palette...I think you are right. I'm put in mind of Van Gogh's comment about Vermeer, to the same effect. If you had to limit yourself to one, maybe something like Hansa PY3 or a Cadmium Lemon shade like PY35? It seems easier to warm a yellow than cool it and it's easy to dull, but admittedly never as good as another pigment choice. I guess a lot depends on you subject matter. As a landscape painter I could get by with Q-Gold, because it makes so many great greens and is an all around good mixer. Even that would be limiting in some cases. Has anyone tried Daniel Smith's Nickel Azo Yellow? It looks like it might be a good bridge between earth yellows and higher chroma yellows. | ||
Robert |
If you restricted yourself to a single yellow (including all yellows plus Raw sienna and yellow ochre) which one would you choose and why? I have looked at a lot of artist's limited palettes and it seems that their choice of yellow is what characterizes the palette and gives the paintings their color qualities more than the red or blue choices, which are often very similar. |
