| Author | Message | ||
  Kisha Unregistered guest |
I guess my problem is that I work well on location but miserably in the studio (on landscapes). The studio is, for me, for still lifes and models. | ||
Garydoc Intermediate Member Username: Garydoc Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2006 |
Jay, when I wrote "...you don't know a subject until you have painted all its moods" and basically was saying paint the same thing over and over again with different lighting and skies." I think I was agreeing with what Whitewatercolor said right after. Every painting is a learning experience, and No! you can't paint watercolor the same every time, so there has to be differences in every painting. However, if the intention of the artist is to 'reproduce' a successful painting so that it can continue to generate income, that sounds somewhat wrong to me too! The moral road would be to market Giclees as such, or to label the paintings as numbered in a series, such as "Oak Tree #1..." Then you know what you are getting if you choose to buy 'original' art. Gary | ||
Jay Unregistered guest |
Whitewatercolor wrote: "Isn't every single painting we do a study?..." ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I don't think so. While it's true we can & do learn from every single painting, I think of "studies" per se, as a series of paintings/drawings/sketches in which we are experimenting, or trying out different compositional techniques - lighting directions, values, value placements, subject placements, hues, etc etc - looking for the best composition in preparation for a final painting of the subject. And of course, there can be post-painting studies, looking for ways to perhaps improve the painting. Or to improve all of our subsequent art, for that matter. I frequently divide a ~9x12 sheet into four near-equal areas by drawing a vertical & horizontal line across the sheet, and do four 'basic' sketches of the same scene, trying something slightly different in each. Usually, just as practice, trying to learn or improve on a technique. For example, the last one I did, I's experimenting with ways of handling snow in banks, hillsides, on trees & objects. The one (or 4) before that, a simple beach scene with Sea Oats & dune fencing. If you'll stop & think for a second, of the literal meaning of the word 'study' (as a noun)...that pretty perfectly describes the practice, at least in my mind. But again - this is not what this thread is about! "A professional, successful artist I know often, after he sells a painting, does a duplicate and offers it for sale again. ... Is this ethical? " We do drift, don't we? <G> /Jay | ||
Whitewatercolor Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 34 Registered: 10-2006 |
Isn't every single painting we do a study? I agree with Marie, it is impossible to paint something the same way twice in watercolor. When a master suggests that you don't really know something until you have painted it in all its moods, I would think he is not speaking about a particular view, although he may be. But to really know an oak tree, for instance, I would think you would could paint oak trees 100 times (even the same oak tree)and see something new with each painting, some little characteristic in shape or color that would make the oak tree seem more alive to the viewer. I consider every single painting to be a study, because I learn something new every time I lift a brush if I am observing and thinking. If we didn't sell our studies we couldn't afford to continue buying paint and paper to continue our studies. An artist is a person who creates art, whether they paint a single pear over and over again their whole lives or paint everything within their sight. I consider each path just as valid. We are looking for an emotional connection with the subject and transfering that (or some) emotion to others. If you see it, imagine it, or just plain feel it and can transfer it to a tangible expression on paper, I would consider it to be worthy art. Whether it sells or not depends on the value you've put on it and it's connection with someone whose means match that value. | ||
Jay Unregistered guest |
Garydoc wrote: "..."you don't know a subject until you have painted all its moods" and basically was saying paint the same thing over and over again with different lighting and skies." ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ This & several of the other given examples herein, I think are what fall into the realm of 'studies'....and I don't feel are what the original subject refers to. Not trying to direct the conversation, but more to distinguish the difference. I don't think most artists are thinking to 'offer up' their studies for sale, as a rule. But when you take, for example, a Picasso etc., and the dozens of variations he painted of any number of subjects in e.g. his 'Blue Period'....or a Van Gogh, which I've seen no less than 3 other versions of one of his more famous 'moon over' & 'out the window' paintings. Whatever his purpose, when they're 'discovered' years after his death, for example, they can certainly attain great value to a great number of art afficionados - who will willingly pay astronomical prices to own one or more, even if it's only a simple planning charcoal sketch! Not that the artists ever put them up for sale, nor even had thoughts of doing so when they created them - or profited from them, for that matter, other than the value it perhaps adds to their reputation, but that's unintentional. But just try to imagine our collective loss if these items were considered 'verboten'! ~8o This also isn't strictly germane to the original subject matter of intentional gain...but as I mentioned previously, it's an interesting subject, with many nuances - and this just another. ~8) /Jay | ||
Garydoc Intermediate Member Username: Garydoc Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2006 |
One of the art books I read recently, the author/artist (wish I could remember who it was) said something like "you don't know a subject until you have painted all its moods" and basically was saying paint the same thing over and over again with different lighting and skies. Gary | ||
Eric Unregistered guest |
There are some subjects where I'm not sure if I want a warm dominance or cool or what colors to use or do I want clouds in the sky, a sunny day, overcast, etc. That's where I can see painting the same subject more than once. You can paint the same subject and really change things a lot. | ||
Marie Intermediate Member Username: Marie Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2006 |
I may do several versions of the same thing, but I find it almost impossible to paint it exactly the same way twice --- even when I am trying to paint it the same way. Invariably, there's something different to try on the second attempt. I have many paintings of the same model in the same pose, but each painting is different. If one really wanted to duplicate the same painting twice, then I think it would be easier just to make a print. | ||
Rekha Intermediate Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2006 |
>>if you're repeating something, number the titles? >> Is that the same as the series, though? | ||
Jay Unregistered guest |
I've never thought of that, but it's an interesting consideration. I suppose as a buyer I might also feel 'cheated', if I leaned heavily on the thought I'd bought something as a bona fide "original". Yet I fully realize many artists, even (or especially) the Old Masters, painted things or scenes literally dozens of times....tho as some of you have alluded, I believe this practice was in more of a 'study' genre. I suppose in the end, each artist should do as they wish, regarding the practice, and let the buyers make their own judgments. Just be prepared to live with the consequences of your decision, and how it affects your reputation, and the 'business' end of things. In personal application - were I so blessed as to have something I'd consider saleable, I think I'd keep (or possibly gift - have done that before) the real original, and offer prints for the selling. Maybe that's a way around my personal desire for not wanting to leave anyone feeling cheated in any manner. My twisted sense of ethics, I guess...haven't really considered this before. Hmmmmm....brainstorming: how about for an ethical way around this - if you're repeating something, number the titles? Just my 2¢, /Jay | ||
Eric Unregistered guest |
Kisha, maybe on location you're painting quicker and looser, not worrying about making mistakes, while in the studio you have more time, therefore you might be more careful and tight. Just a thought. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Taking up the topic of the header again, doing a watercolor twice, I often do small 7 X 10 block paintings on location. Every time I have then in the studio tried to blow one up into a full or 1/2 sheet painting, it fails miserably. Anyone else experience this consistently? Anyone have an explanation? | ||
Eric |
Suzy, of course when I was there it was July and gorgeous. The lake was beautiful. But I can see where the winters could be long and depressing...especially for a Hawaii native. | ||
Suzy |
Eric.. although I loved the friends and community in CdA, Idaho, I HATED the weather. If we were lucky, we'd get two months of summer...and one year we only had about 3 weeks. We lived right onthe water and those 'three weeks' were heaven on earth. I never went anywhere in the summer, I just wanted to stay home and enjoy the lake. It was like summer in novel.... But alas, the gray skies and damp moldy climate did me in after 12 years and I moved to the "Sunshine State" (Florida) and never looked back. BTW, that area has one of the highest Radon scores of anywhere in the USA. And there is more despression and immune disease(Fibromyalgia, lupus,Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, etc..) in the NW than anywhere in the US as well. Then to top it off, I have a license with a company up there that have been a huge thorn in my side and have almost caused me to lose my faith in humanity and most definately in the Judicial system of the US. I have cried more over them than I should have... I never want to go back there...even to visit. I have actually flown my frineds down here just so I could see them and not have to go up there again. I love sunshine, warm weather and for that I am willing to tolerate huricanes! Thats my story and Im stickin' to it! And about painting, of course no two were exactly alike. Of course some were summer, spring, flowery, snowy..but all the same view... | ||
Raliegh |
I feel sorry for the 'artist' that feels they found a winning formula and reproduce the same scene, angle, etc. exactly the same way twice. I agree that the same subject painted at different times of day, different angles, new things added would further the artists growth and hanging those pictures side by side in a gallery or selling them individually would be an added bonus to the buyers. | ||
Eric |
Since there's an infinite number of different things you can do to the painting to change it, it seems ok to me. In fact, I think it's a good idea to explore the same subject in a different way, a good learning experience. It also takes your fear away in doing something experimental if you know that you'll be painting the same subject many times. If you planned on only painting the subject once, you might be hesitant about making the sky pink. | ||
jandrle |
I paint in series, and feel that i get to know the subject matter so well that i can draw it without looking at or pictures of it. I do different sizes, compositions etc. There is no real reason to paint the same painting, a different composition of the same subject is equally appealing. There is a market in the town where we keep our boat on the Chesapeake. I have painted it any number of times. Sometimes I put pumpkins in, sometimes hanging baskets of spring flowers, once a nighttime scene, one decorated for Christmas and once for Halloween...you can tell it is a very cool market! They sell in a gallery over there. The fun of doing it is to find differences, not sameness. I used to think it was unethical to paint the same subject twice, but changed my mind when I felt driven to do it and saw the growth that came from it. Jane | ||
Eugene |
I see nothing wrong with doing the same painting twice, but I seldom do it because for me it is boring. Sometime I do a painting again because I think I can improve on it, but it seldom works, because I've lost the spark. | ||
Eric |
Webb has a certain scene in Maine at a boatyard, I forgot the name of the place that he paints over and over, but always somewhat different. You're right Suzy about Coeur d'alene...beautiful. Do you miss not living there? That's on my short list of "places I'd like to live", although I hear it's getting crowded. | ||
Suzy |
When I lived in north Idaho we had a lot of tourist that would come and stay at the beautiful Coeur d'Alene Resort right on the lake. I must have painted the view of the lake form the resort at least a hundred times and sold everyone. Same compostion, same view, same style. Of course it was never exactly alike but bvery very close. I have no regrets whatsoever. (I now paint the Naples Florida Pier over and over for the same reason!)I don't have a problem with it. Each one would be slightly different.. not try to be a stroke for stroke reproduction but the same scene that is a sucessful composition is not an issue for me. I just purchased a Frank Webb original of one of his Mexico market scenes. It is a composition used from a sketch he uses over and over, each time the colors vary, the number of people vary, the direction of light varies etc yet the piece is exactly the view "snapshot" of the market he drew on one of his trips there. I was exactly was I was looking for when I began searching for when I decided I wanted a Frank Webb original. So from someone who just laid out a bunch of money for an original, I say its OK with me! | ||
reptillycus |
stuart davis painted the same eggbeater over 50 times. You decide if this is okay............................................. | ||
Anonymous |
I think doing something so similar is unprofessional. I would take it back and ask for a refund. It might stop this type of thing. A series yes, a copy no. | ||
Anonymous |
I'd feel cheated as the purchaser. Something similar, I can understand. The great masters had series where they repeated a theme or reworked a piece but something nearly identical---if you want to profit from it that much, make reproductions and market as such. If I buy an original artwork, I would expect my best friend wouldn't have one just like it at her house next month. And it would take a very astute collector to notice the differences between them. This seems like fear that you couldn't paint a different, saleable work. Just MHO. | ||
Anonymous |
A professional, successful artist I know often, after he sells a painting, does a duplicate and offers it for sale again. It might not be exactly the same because that is almost impossible in watercolor-- but very close. Is this ethical? If I bought a painting, and later saw the same thing for sale again, I'd feel cheated. Am I thinking right or am I being picky and maybe a little jealous? I'd like to hear your o |
