| Author |
Message |
 
George
| | Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 6:10 pm: |  |
Louise , the word “hue” used in the name of a paint tells you that the pigment used in the name will not be in the paint. For example; cobalt blue hue will have no cobalt in it. |
Sid
| | Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 10:58 am: | |
Kukana:
Have you checked out the blues in the M. Graham line? I
use MG ultramarine, cobalt, and cerulean and like them
very much. Also MG Azo Yellow Med.
For the Burnt Sienna and Raw Sienna, I use W&N. The BS is
very transparent and the RS is much yellower than others.
Just my two cents worth. Glad you survived the storms!!
Nothing like that in Idaho, right??
Sid |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 7:38 am: | |
Thanks for the colours, pro and con on AJ. I'll make a record of these for the future. |
Kukana
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 11:41 pm: | |
I just mentioned Whitney in another thread. He was amazing...the mentor of many of the greats. His book has been reprinted and i love it.
Some of the AJ colors I like. sap green, Joe's (thalo) blue Joes(Thalo) green, Passionate Purple-Thioindigo, violet, wild fushia (Opera), skip green, cad yellow, Halloween (Cad) orange, Quin Burnt orange, Q-sienna,and Q-rose, Burnt Umber, Raw Umber, Olive green,
The main ones I do not like are their Manganese, cobalt, ultramarine,Scarlet lake, or Quin gold.
I use Maimeri, DS and WN for these colors that are not quite the same in the AJ formula. But basically I really like the AJ stuff. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 6:18 pm: | |
Edgar Whitney was one of the greatest w/c teachers
ever. (see Ron Ranson's book-- Watercolor the Ed
Whitney Way) He used only student grade colors.
His students included Tony Couch, Frank Webb, Judy
Wagner and many well known others. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 12:44 pm: | |
Kukana - Which are your favourites of AJ - curious.
Thanks. |
Louise
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 9:21 am: | |
Hi Kukana
I do use artist-colors. My artist-pallette consists of W&N (pans), Rembrandt (tubes), Schmincke (pans) and Maimeri (tubes). Rembrandt is very inexpensive to purchase here, it took me a few years to find but now I have them.
Shippingcosts is not an issue if there's no way to pay them, coz I don't own a visa I only own a card for the machine at my bank. I do understand your point though, and maybe someday I'll be able to try those paints out:) |
Louise
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 9:02 am: | |
Hi George
Thanks a lot for your advices.
I'm just about to test all my brands (not every color). I'm not just hanging them in the window but also the bathroom to check for moist-resistance combined with light in case a framing should go wrong. And then the kitchen too see if there's a difference between morning-light and evening-light.
I never understood why 'hue' is a thing to avoid?
It's nice to know that I can use the earthcolors from Cotman. I'll see if I can retrieve a list of Cotman-colors and check out which are singlepigments. |
Louise
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 8:53 am: | |
Hi Anonymous
Nono, I didn't throw the paints at him that way! Not my paints, anything except my paints *LOL*!... I'll buy a new box as soon as I get a new appartment I guess, coz it's so inexpensive. And then I get a shelf out of reach for small paws. The box doesn't fit into my stack of other things. I've got so many other colors and my bf seems to be needing them more than I do right now. Yes, I'm turning him into a coloradict too... can't help it:) |
Kukana
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 8:41 am: | |
I guess my point, that I totally negelected to make was this...There is only one reason to use inferior quaily student grade paint....COST. If one can get proffessional grade at the same cost why buy inferior? True shipping is n issue overseas but it really isn't that much. I used to live in Europe ad in the long run a bigger tube lasts longer anyway...It really all comes out the end.
About AJ paints.... Like all brands , there are favorites in every line. Don't let one or two that you dont like in AJ stop you from continuing to try them. I am not crazy about any of their blues....but I love their yellow, reds, purples and and browns. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, October 9, 2004 - 5:54 am: | |
Thanks, Kukana, for weighing in on this issue from the perspective of cost. For Louise this doesn't cut it - to ship abroad is very dear, but for Statesiders you have a very good point.
More importantly for me is that the tube paints go a lot farther so essentially you get more for your buck/dollar.
I haven't tried Joe's paint and as I am filled to the brim with DS, WN and Graham's it will be awhile before I'll go after more paint. However, when I do run out or run dry :) on your recommendation I'll certainly give American Journey a try. Certainly their name choices get the juices going.
Thanks and have a great weekend. |
Kukana
| | Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 9:20 pm: | |
I am a professional artist....full time, this-is-all-I-do artist. I use professional quality paint. Do not confuse professinal quality with expensive. That is not always true. Cheap Joes American Journey brand is fabulous (no, I do not work for Joe) They are ecconomically priced, (as cheap as anything you call student grade) and and have a excellent quality to them. I highly reccomend them. More than 2/3 of my pallette is made up of them. The only reason I have other brands is that there are some colors only available by other manufacturers that suit my needs. Try them. He guarrantees them. What more can you ask for? |
George
| | Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 10:03 am: | |
To answer your question, I began with student grade paint (as I believe every student should, unless they have money burning to be spent). Today I use artist grade paint. Some of the student grade paint is very near the artist grade and is used by professional artists. I still use some of my student grade paint. The best advice I can give you is:
1. You should always test your paints (paint a bit on a piece of paper and hang it in the window for a year).
2. Try to use only paints (student or artist) that are single pigment paints. The pigments are listed on the tube.
3. The best student grade paints are the earths and the other inexpensive pigments.
4. Stay away from student grade paints that are labeled with the word “hue” after the name of the color. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 7:27 am: | |
Louise, poor BF, slammed to the ground by a Russian Yarka :) I'd retrieve them if I were you! |
Louise
| | Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 2:22 am: | |
Hi anonymous.
I just gave up my yarka-paints throwing them at my bf... Hoping he could use them for practice. That's mostly because I had no room for them and now it's his problem storing them somewhere in this overstuffed appartment with cats all over the place. But the colors are gorgeous! Well, I went to a Danish discussionboard where there was said that there's not yet been problems with the yarka paints. A respected Danish watercolor artist (honestly, I don't know who that artist is...) even recommend that brand to his students (according to the one posting on that messageboard). We are now testing them for the lightfastness ourselves along with all the other brands we have. But until now, I'm a yarka-paint-fan too lightfast or not, I just don't like the box... And if I miss them too much I'll just go to my bf and ask if I can borrow them:)
Hm... about the "less is more"... Well, I think I'll just keep my mouth shut with my range of colors. I'm a color-holic so personally for me "the more the better" *LOL* But except for that I agree. |
Louise
| | Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 2:13 am: | |
-continued...
(George, sorry, my cat posted the message while I previewed it)
I'm about to test my studentgrade paints along with the others and I look forward to see the result. Do you use studentgrade then (don't have to answer, I'm just curious *S*)? I have noticed a difference in transparency and intensity using W&N student/artist and Talens student/artist. You really got my attention with this... If you have more you'd like to tell on this subject regarding student vs. artist quality I'll be a HAPPY listener coz I don't know much about it. |
Louise
| | Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 2:00 am: | |
Hi George
Thanks a lot for making me aware of my mistake. I assumed too quick that studentgrade were not very durable. Ofcourse they are good if they are rated, I never looked at mine before throwing the wrapping for my pans out. |
George
| | Posted on Thursday, October 7, 2004 - 12:56 pm: | |
I agree 100% I think the whole push to use artist’s quality paint is coming from people who don’t teach, or from teachers who have forgotten what the student is struggling with. The student has to learn to mix color first. Learning to mix color and to apply that color to paper can be done with student grade just as easily as with artist grade paint, but at a much lower cost. When the student learns how to handle the materials then they can move on to artist grade paint.
One more thing, you said that “a beginner needs to be very aware that student grades won't last as well as artist grade.” I’ve found no evidence of that! I think it’s as much a myth as is the notion that student grade isn’t good for the student. All paints have a rating on the tube. If it’s student grade and it’s rated “AA” it will last just as long as an artist grade “AA”. And so on… |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 - 11:04 pm: | |
I don't advocate artists grade over student grade, anymore than I recommend a Mercedes over a Fiat.
I've done some of my best work with Yarka paint pans, never highly recommended but sure satisfying (to me). I do see a difference between pans, tubes, artist vs. student grade, but not enough to suggest that people go out and spend more money than they can afford or that is necessary.
Learning to handle the paint is the first step, and when you've figured it out, you can also branch out.
I think "less is more" but often "buy more than less" :) |
Louise
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 - 10:12 pm: | |
-oooh, and by the way... About the color-thing... I often mix myself greens with umbers and raw sienna... If you paint with a limited pallette you'd first have to mix yourself these 3 earthcolors to get THAT green! (If not, please tell me) And a color changes when toned with water. I can't remeber what color I was proud of being able to mix (months ago) in a concentrated color, but when I compared with the one I copied and toned them both with water, the result with water was slightly but noticable different. Yeah, I know... maybe my brush or water was not completely clean and that would have caused it... I don't know... I thought this needed to be added. |
Louise
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 6, 2004 - 9:56 pm: | |
Well... I know a lot of people recommend artist quality, the best you can afford, to beginners. I won't!
I started out with no books, no advice, nothing. I had the cheapest paper, which was not even a studentquality from professional manufacturers, a brush-set with 10 brushes for 3 dollars, and cotman-pan-colours. I stretched it with masking tape. I did fine with those materials for 1½ years! It was difficult but I learned the hard way making the switch over to artist-quality pure joy. I even did some succesful glazing, and 2 of my favourite paintings are done in student-quality. I had no idea what it was 'supposed' to look like except for what I wanted it to look like. And I had fun doing it.
In my oppinion telling a beginner to begin with artist-quality is a cliché and a "snob"-thing (can I call it that?).
If I didn't know what to do at the beginning and just trying out what to paint not getting a satisfying result, I'd be afraid to use too much, especially paper, and that would be a major blockage in watercolor I think. Focusing about not getting a good result, being even more disappointed when it wouldn't succeed when spent THAT kind of money. That would completely take away all the fun.
Then I read in a book it could be a problem with student-grade coz they weren't 'as bright and sometimes the same colors as the artist qualities'. Yeah right! I have 4 different brands to play with (I'm a color-holic) and most of these colors are different anyway depending on the brand. If you start out with a limited pallette you have only little knowledge what a "real" emerald green looks like (depending on the brand of course). You don't get the perspective of the colorspectre that's available and refered to. Starting out limited a green would just be a green in various greens. I'd have no idea what a sap-green was and how to mix one if I didn't see it in action in all its glory. Most people are smart enough to limit the pallette for each painting when they have had some practice. Even though I have an embarrassing number of colors I still mix them together often, very limited at times.
You get a whole different practice (as mentioned before) when starting out with 'student'. A glazing is difficult on cheap paper with student-color and THOSE brushes, but I learned to do it ok and now I rarely do a failed glaze with artist-quality. I probably would have learned anyway, but I have had no waste in painting material.
Telling people student-quality lasts longer is... I don't know... exaggerated? I have over 1/2 of my (1/2)pans left even though I've painted with them a lot. And who cares how long they last, coz when you reach the point where you are through with them most people would probably already have purchased some artist-quality by then. You don't just use up a set of studentpaints unless you by then have decided to paint! OK, never say never, but do you get my point?
And I promise, if you can handle cheap brushes, the more xpensive ones (I use synthetic) will become a dream! You create your own joy and happiness.
The only thing a beginner needs to be VERY aware of is that student grades won't last as well as artist-gualities. I'd say buy a set of student-quality to play with and a limited pallette of artist-quality to take your newfound knowledges into action. As well as paper, a large sheet cut to 4-8 pieces in a good quality and a few pads of student-paper and 1 or 2 good brushes.
Please comment, contradict, tell me I'm weird, anything! |
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