| Author | Message | ||
  jdaneman |
I wonder if we will ever see red pigments that are lightfast; in car paint, red is notorious for fading. Look at any house with burgundy shutters; they fade in two to three years. Why anyone would even use burgundy on trim is beyond me. In our neighborhood, those houses built with burgundy trim look bad and we are a new development. Funny thing is, red paint made with buttermilk in past (I suppose they used red ochre) or the famous ghost mining town in Alaska have red paint that doesn't fade over a whole century. But as to pinks, unless you use a duller quin rose, you are going to find that bright purples and pinks are not lightfast and ditto the bright alizarin. But for alizarin, perylene maroon is a fine substitute though not as glowing. Joanna | ||
Robert |
Patrice-- On your comment: "I've always thought the difference in naming was to distinguish colors that look a lot alike but are really made from different chemical compounds than the previous bearers of the name. " The "purpose" in a name is to sell paint and to often distinguish your brand from the competition's even though it uses identical pigment. Bumble Bee Yellow, Copper Kettle, have nothing to do with pigment content. Neither does permanent yellow (which in Holbein's case is highly impermanent)etc. The old standbys like cobalt and cadmiums are expected by the consumer and so the pigment names stick. But even with something like yellow ochre which is supposed to be organic, you usually actually are getting Mars yellow , which is synthetic. There is no governing authority holding the companies accountable for their naming obfuscation -- only the informed consumer. | ||
Robert |
I feel the same way about Opera , which is even more fugitive (if that's possible) than AC. Still, it is gaining usage, not losing it. No m\atter how cool Opera looks, no matter how much people rationalize using it, not matter how much customers are warned about its fugitive qualities (as if they really think these things through), the use of Opera in fine art to be sold is unconscionable. It gives watercolor a bad name. | ||
dake |
I don't know why anyone would use alizarin crimson, I've told my local supplier he's an idiot for keeping it in stock and to quietly change it to permanent azc and that noone would be any the wiser. | ||
Patrice |
That's funny. I've always thought the difference in naming was to distinguish colors that look a lot alike but are really made from different chemical compounds than the previous bearers of the name. Um... if we were all (to walk like) Egyptians, our blues could be made from Lapis Lazuli! Patrice | ||
Robert |
Yea--It could be a combination magic show and art exhibit! Jeanne Dobie can be the first judge. | ||
Sid |
Well, maybe your comment will start a whole new genre-- "Disappearing Paintings." The goal would be to produce paintings that absolutely do not last. The faster they disappear, the more successful the artist! In my case, they should disappear quickly before anyone could look at them with too critical an eye. | ||
Robert |
Donovan praises Ah Lah Zah Ree ahn CLimson (with an "L") so it must be good, right? Who cares that it is fugitive. More rose madder! More Opera! More disappearing paintings. | ||
Sid |
OK Robert. Are you really extolling the virtues of Alizarin Crimson or Alizarin CLIMSON??? Stop trying to confuse us! | ||
Robert |
Alizarin Crimson has such a cool name. Don't you remember the 60's Donovon song "Wear Your Love Like Heaven." "Color sky rose carmethene, Al--ah --zah--ree --ahn Climson?" It rolls off the tongue so much better than Quinacridone Violet! Who cares that it fades in a matter of hours before a candleflame. Art is foe the artist to be selfish and slef indulgent, not responsible to his or her collectors. I say paint everything in Holbein Opera, Alizarin Crimson, genuine rose madder, Aurolein. Can anyone recommend a fugitive blue so I can complete my palette? Long live Donovan, Jeanne Dobie, and Al ah zah ree ahn Climson. | ||
drollere |
a few things. "light" and "dark" (or "deep") when used in paint names are really hue distinctions, not differences in lightness. "light" means "closer to yellow" and "dark" means "closer to blue violet." cadmium red light has a hue closer to yellow than cadmium red deep. permanent green light is closer to yellow than permanent green. cobalt violet is closer to yellow (to red) than cobalt violet deep. cobalt blue deep is closer to violet than cobalt blue. and so on. "cobalt blue deep" is indeed listed in the handprint guide to watercolor pigments -- but it's not a flavor of cobalt blue, PB28, it's a separate pigment, cobalt blue deep, PB72. go figure. i have to ask ... WHY are people still using alizarin crimson? | ||
Erikia |
I wondered the same thing about Ultramarine Light and dark. I emailed customer service at one of the paint manufacturers and the reply was that Ultramarine Dark is the traditional French Ultramarine with "high granulation and more violet undertones." The Ultramarine Light is the same as "Ultramarine blue, green shade." It used to be called "Permanent Blue--more the color of cobalt." | ||
John Preston |
That's good news. Sort of confused me as all the catalogs I have listed it as available. Guess Bruce didn't test it. | ||
Dake |
Hi John, W&N Cobalt Blue Deep is a staple colour of mine, I buy it in 14ml tubes and I would be seriously disturbed if it were no longer available. | ||
Eugene |
Suzy, Good for you! I admire works that use all those colors, but they just don't work for me. Maybe it's my personality or the way I was trained. But that's the way it should be or we would all be painting the same dull stuff. Right? | ||
Suzy |
I have favorites but , man, I use them all and generously.! | ||
Eugene |
Thanks Suzy and John, For years I have been using a very limited palette. Too many colors confuse me. These are my basics. REDS: Alizarin Crimson, Permanent Rose BLUES: Cobalt, Ultramarine YELLOW: New Gamboge EARTHS: Burnt Sienna, Raw Sienna, Raw Umber If you're like me, you also have tons of other colors you have tried and that occasionally sneak into a painting. SOMETIME COLORS: Cerulean Blue, Thalo Blue, Thalo Green, Sap Green, Cadmium Red, Ivory Black. But I use these only if needed for a special effect. So if I want to keep my palette simple, I think, when I have a choice of dark or light, I'll take my chances and go for the darks. | ||
Suzy |
Eugene, you should just email Bruce at Handprints. He is really good at answering questions like this. He has always been so helpful and coourteous to me when I've asked even dumb questions. . Go to his site and ask. Suzy | ||
John Preston |
PS. Just checked Handprint and am even more confused. I guess W/N doesn't have a Cobalt Deep anymore, or he didn't test it. He too, seems to feel the difference in some brands of Ultramarine is one of biasing, usually to a green shade. In other cases it seems to be texture or behavior. I've noticed that the nomenclature he uses often includes an additional number, after a colon , such as PB 15:3 and so on. Wish the tubes had that, as it might help us pinpoint why we like one company's pigment choice over another's. | ||
John Preston |
Boy, that's a tough one. I'm not sure this is something that is consitent from one manufacturer to another. Sometimes the "dark" shade will bias out differently than the light shade when diluted. eg: W/N Cobalts. Often they don't look ALL that different in value at full strength either. | ||
Eugene |
Could anyone tell me the difference between the light and dark colors? Example; Ultramarine Light and Ultramarine Deep. Should I use only the deep and add more water to get the lighter shades? Or are they two completely different colors? Many other colors are also labeled light and dark. What is your experence with these? |
