| Author | Message | ||
  drollere |
i'd like to correct rallegh's second hand misinterpretation: i did not say that "glazing is [no] more efficient (and definitely not [more] "luminisent") than applying paint less diluted," i said: "paint glazed in several thin layers is not darker, richer or more saturated than a single layer of the same paint applied at the optimal consistency" which is an entirely different thing. i don't need to argue this point because i actually did the comparisons myself, using many different paints, and measuring color attributes with a spectrophotometer, and my statement is just empirical fact. if you'd do the exploration yourself, rather than just believe what you're told, you'd discover the same thing. someday i will get around to finishing the page i plan on glazing techniques in watercolor, but there are definite advantages and unique properties to glazed paint layers. probably the main attraction is textural: the color layers each have their own variations in paint density, color boundaries and brushstroke texture, which introduce a visual color complexity that is extremely attractive and one of the signature effects of watercolor painting. in portraits, for example, this approach can produce a marvelous sense of complexity and restlessness in a static pose. one way to think about glazing is that it spreads out, with layers horizontally across the paper, what the pointillists did vertically, with tiny dots side by side on the canvas. if it's done skillfully then this pointillist or impressionist sense of color vitality really can leap off the page, especially if combined with lots of brushstroke gesture, watery backruns and pigment texturing. the key, in most cases, is to let each layer dry completely before launching on the next, although you can get lovely effects by glazing over a layer that has partially dried, producing transparent veils of color in the dry areas and intermixed, backrunny blends of color in the wet. the effect is enhanced by making sure the layers do not exactly match along their edges, which helps the eye resolve them into separate colors. the other benefit to glazing is that it lets you control many darks, especially carbon blacks, phthalo blues or indanthrone blue, that seem to backrun or blotch uncontrollably if applied as a single coat. this is because these pigment particles are very small, strongly tinting, and manufactured with a dispersant to speed up and smooth out the milling process. it's very difficult to brush them on evenly and then prevent any blotching as they dry. the recommended solution is to start the glazing with a very diluted mixture of the color, then add denser coats in succession until the desired final color is reached. any imperfections or blems in one coat average out across all coats, and this sequential process also softens the paper sizing, fluffs up the surface cellulose fibers through repeated wetting and drying (think of a wool sock that's gone through the wash several times), and smooths out the thicker areas of paint through partial redissolving and brushing out. but again, we're talking an issue of smoothed paint texture here, not a superiority in color darkness or color intensity. glazing can become a bad habit, because watercolors seem to lighten (fade, actually) as they dry. "oops, still not dark enough!" is the real royal road to becoming a chronic, compulsive glazer. what is stunning about the one shape, one stroke painting style is that the guy nailed the color on the first try. | ||
Robert |
Sorry--the first summary below is of Watercolor Workshop. | ||
Robert |
Both films are about simple and direct plein air painting. It is good--He paints a fountain focusing on a mass of foliage as a backdrop, then he paints a barn, and repaints the scene using his wet glazing technique, then he shows how to paint clouds quickly wet in wet--I use his method now and like it--then on to painting a distant view of a rock surrounded by ocean, then several rock formations on a sandy beach, then a scene of a cathedral front with pedestrians, lastly a simple farm building. Simply watercolor is set in Belgium and has four demos--a view of a building across a lake with foliage and water reflections, next a big cloudy sky with a landscape of foliage and houses below, next architectural facades meeting at right angles and finally a millhouse and river reflections. I like them both. Since you have his book, it's very useful to use his palette. He relies a lot of cobalt blue, which is not in my palette, but I may readd it. Most importantly, if you want to truly work as he does on the videos, you will need a white sable 1 1/2" flat and a white sable #36 round--Robert Simmons work for me. | ||
Eric |
Thanks, Robert. The "Watercolor Workshop" must be new. I thought his latest book by the same name was very good. | ||
Robert |
I would get wade's watercolor workshop video, though I have simply watercolor too. The watercolor workshop is 90 min long, the others are 60. It is the latest and he really does go over the things he covers live in a workshop. The location paintings - he demos abour 5, are oputstanding. Simply waterclor is prestty good--all set in Belgium. Either way, it is great instruction in plein air painting. You can find the video online be doing a search. | ||
Eric |
I think Joe's offers two videos of Wade's. I'm assuming they must be worth the $. Would it be necessary to get both? One is called, "Simply Watercolor" and the other is "Watercolor..Wade's Way". Anyone have an opinion on them? | ||
Robert |
I think I remember reading that a September workshop had been cancelled because he had had a heart attack while teaching in Italy. I must have assumed the heart attack was fatal. Sure glad RW is still with us. I really like him from his videos. | ||
Robert |
This is good news. I read this somewhere last Sept (news of his death) either I or the article made a bad mistake. Was it Mark twain who said," Rumors of my death have been greatly exhaggerated?' I wish I had th $$ to fly to Austrailian and take a class with Wade. I'd love to watch his work. He does so much with white sable--a big 1 1/2" flat is his main brush along with a #36 round. He does wonders with those big brushes. He will on occassion use white goauche for accents. He'd rather get a big unencumbered wash and put in a couple of small spots with goauche if need be. I used to fault him for that, but it works, so what the hell. | ||
John Preston |
Yeah, Eugene, his site has several 2005 dates and most are sold out. Thank goodness I think he's still with us! | ||
Eugene |
First of all I want to state that I am a “direct painter” not a “glazer”. However, I’ve seen many wonderful watercolors that were painted with glazes. The English school relied heavily on glazing. Sir Russel Flint piled on glaze after glaze on the sensuous nudes he painted, and no one has ever called them muddy. It’s a different way of painting which I haven’t had much success with. Many of the best painters today begin with a pale “mother color” wash that covers the paper except for the highlights. When this is completely dry they proceed with their painting. This is layering one color over another. Is this considered glazing? I try to keep an open mind on these issues. If we all used the same methods our work would be boring-- and we’d have nothing to discuss. I’m taking two weeks of workshops in March. One with Frank Webb and one with Gerald Brommer. Two completely different styles. I don’t want to return painting like either one of them, but I know I’ll pick up something useful from each that will suit my style without changing it | ||
Eugene |
I'm surprised to hear that Robert Wade died last fall. The January issue of International Artist advertises a workshop to be given by him in England & Scotland, Aug.21-Sept.9 | ||
Raliegh |
Thanks Robert, I'll check Mel Stabins site | ||
George |
I think I found the source of the confusion over the Dobie statement from Singing Colors. This morning I found my copy and this is what is has to say. I’ll paraphrase for brevity. She states that glazing gives “unique luminosity” and elsewhere that glazing gives a, “luminosity not attained by any other method.” She follows this last statement with examples of atmospheric conditions. She does not say that a glazed surface is more luminous than a well painted single coated surface. She only states that the luminosity is different in appearance. The point is that all watercolor (glazed and unglazed) is luminous, and while the glazed and unglazed areas may look different one is not more luminous than the other. A glazed surface is “unique” in the sense that it does have a different look to it, thus making its luminosity unique (different) when compared to the luminosity of a non-glazed surface (again I emphasize, different than, not greater than). I’m not trying to beat a dead horse here, I’m just trying to clarify something that can easily be very confusing. | ||
Robert |
The Wade book/video set has now sold, BTW. | ||
Robert |
Raleigh-- I once did that exercise from the book--it's the cadmium red flowers-- right? That was what cured me of glazing. My painting came out like Szabo's --more or less (maybe a tinsey bit on the "less" side, haha), but the glazed surface looked overworked and plain terrible. Szabo's couldn't have been all that much better, I venture, in person becasue whatever he did, he was left with that ugly glaze. Go ahead and try the exercise. You may be able to pull it off. Then you might Check out Watercolor: Simple, Fast, And Focused by Mel Stabin for the one stroke approach perfected. He has paintings displayed on melstabin.com. | ||
Robert |
FYI== I just noticed that someone on Amazon used is selling "Robert Wades Watercolor Workshop Handbook" AND un unopened copy of the workshop video for 10 bucks total. This is a steal. The video retails for $40, the book for $30. It's the first book for sale under used books for that title. | ||
Raliegh |
After reading these posts, I started my painting all over again. Originally I was going to glaze over the top of flowers as illustrated in zoltan Szabo's 70 WC Techniques. I'm not Szabo. | ||
Robert |
Jospeh Zbuvinic, Robert Lovett, David Taylor --a lot of the books on watercolor published by International Artist Magazine are Australian. | ||
jdaneman |
Robert-- Every time I see a painting I love, it's Australian. Can you name some more? | ||
John Preston |
Wow...didn't know Wade had passed on. He was one of the best contemporary watercolorists around. | ||
Robert |
George--I think I should explain more about Wade's technique of "Wet Glazing" because I agree--true glazing is done with each layer bone dry, other wise mixing inadvertantly occurs-- I have his watercolor workshop video in which he demonstrates the "outlandish" technique. He takes the image of the side of a barm and paints it in quick succession with raw sienna, permanent rose, winsor violet, and lastly quinacridone gold. In the video he might have used the term "glazing" but I seem to recall that he kept saying "going back into the wet passage with a new color" more frequently. Anyway, this sort of "wet glazing" created an interesting effect, not exactly the same a mixing the colors on the paper, not exactly the same as glazing. The secret is to use wet washes and to keep going in quickly. No mud. He died last Fall. He seemed like such a great guy in his video. I really am partial to Aussie watercolorists. | ||
Robert |
The "luninosity" of a color is actually created by the white of the paper showing through. More layers --less white, so luminsosity is not enhanced by glazing. FWIW-- Dobie's idea of glazing presented in Making Colors Sing is based upon Aurolein (fugitive), Rose madder (fugitive), and cobalt (lightfast). Draw your own conclusions. | ||
Robert |
Jefields said " In Robert Wades's Workshop book, he describes a technique of applying several glazes while still wet..." George said, " Applying a glaze while the paper is still wet is not, technically, a glaze..." Robert says,"Yea, George, but you still got the idea, didn't you?" | ||
George |
Eugene, a glaze can sometimes have a different look to it than a single brushstroke (this can be useful sometimes), but luminosity is not the word that I would use to describe the difference in the appearance of the painted surface. I have yet to see a glazed surface (in watercolor) that is more luminous than a well painted single coated surface. I think the idea comes from oil painting, which is opaque paint, and the glaze really is more luminous, but as I say, I’ve never seen it in watercolor. As for my larger point that heavy glazers (in watercolor) are wasting their time, please note that even Jeanne Dobie does not recommend more than one or two glazes, but I’ve talked to people who use 20 or more glazes. Again, if someone can explain why they do this I’d be interested in hearing about it. | ||
Eugene |
Jeanne Dobie, in her book 'making colors sing' says that she glazes to gets a luminosity that one cannot get by direct painting. I'm not saying that I agree with her, I am just saying that there are artists with that opinion. I doesn't seem to work for me, but she does jury many shows and paints prizewinning watercolors! I respect her work and thoughts. | ||
George |
Applying a glaze while the paper is still wet is not, technically, a glaze. It’s really a variation of the process of mixing paints on paper. One or two glazes is OK if the painting needs a correction, but I really don’t understand people who glaze as if that’s what watercolor is all about (They actually say things like that). My guess (someone correct me if my guess is wrong) is that these people (the heavy glazers) can not judge the proper color, value and intensity on the first brush stroke and therefore keep correcting the painting until they get close to what the proper color, value and intensity should be. To justify their inability to do it right the first time they convince themselves (and anyone who will listen to them) that they are using a standard watercolor technique. | ||
jefields |
In Robert Wades's Workshop book, he describes a technique of applying several glazes while still wet (i.e., immediately after applying the previous glaze). His point was that it didn't make mud. I tried this in different combinations and was pleased with the overall effect. Might be worth checking out. Judith | ||
Dake |
One factor most important to the result of multi layer glazing in watercolour is the effect on the paper. With each pass of water the fibres become more polluted by the pigments and carrier, they dont react the same on the second wash as on the first, and even less after each wash. The fibres in the paper become heavy and stiff eventually sluggishly or barely accepting pigment paticals until they lift in some areas less than others giving an uneven appearance. Paper expands on wetting and contracts on drying wich does cause irreversable changes to the pulp formation. By using dye based pigments you can get away with more glazes as partical size and weight,specific gravity is much less than the partical based pigments. The paper fibres still change but much slower and less radically. | ||
jdaneman |
Hi Robert! I so agree with your finding. I reviewed a book that had one paint in that layer method for doing ultra-realism but I found the colors were clouded immediately. Painting in glazes didn't work for me at all. But I did find that muting a painting with an overall glaze of bemz. deep gold gave interesting depth--rather like antiquing furniture. I try to adhere to the one-stroke policy as when I drift from it, I am invariably annoyed at the result. | ||
Robert |
My personal experience is that with every layer of glaze the richness and luminosity drop (that stands to reason since more of the white paper is being clouded over with every glazed layer). I prefer one-stroke-and-don't-go-back ala prima painting. Actually the whole concept of meticulous glazing puts me off re. watercolors, which I see as a spontaneous, take no prisoners,jump-in with both feet kind of medium. But, quite literally, "different strokes for different folks." | ||
Raliegh |
I'm surprised that Handprint doesn't think glazing is any more efficient (and definitely not "luminisent") than applying paint less diluted. What have your experiences been? |
