| Author | Message | ||
  joanna Unregistered guest |
I don't date Art...Bob would get jealous. | ||
Linda |
This topic has been extremely informative: I will now keep record logs(computer and hardcopy) of my works with the date completed and title, a synopsis of the work with any additional comments I have and note the location I am at the time. In addition, I will sign the front in a way that I choose, not "everyone's-got-that-name" Linda. I will date the back in a code only I recognize, which will match my logs. When I win titles, I will include them on the back of the painting, along with a short comment and location. On the back, the complete listing of the brand of paper, each paint used by pigment number, brand and name. Underneath all, my complete and full signature. That's quality. That's class. Thank you to everyone who contributed to my new knowledge! Much appreciation to Lex, reve 1, drollere, Carrie Stuart Parks, apiper, kukana, LPMullins, gabriel, ANDIZEE, and Anonymous. | ||
Lex |
Piper, I've been reading as much as I can scrounge up about the business end of displaying and marketing art lately. From what I gather the reason some shows (juried or purely commercial) want either recent work or work that hasn't been previously displayed at that particular show is to both maintain freshness and to encourage artists to stay productive. While I can understand that requirement for juried shows I disagree with restrictions on purely commercial shows in which the main goal is to sell artwork. One never knows when tastes will change and an undisplayed piece might earn the artist's booth rental. Also (what's the emoticon for tounge-in-cheek...?) I don't see many galleries pulling their 19th century art off the walls simply because it's more than two years old. | ||
piper |
I like to date my work simply to see at a glance how I have progressed. I wonder why art shows care when a work was done? They all seem to limit the entries to the past 2 years so there must be a reason. Anyone know? | ||
Lex |
As I look back at issues of various art magazines from the 1980s-90s I see quite a bit of variety in the area of signing and dating one's art. I noticed some artists not only signed and dated their work but also added the copyright © symbol. One fellow added this in bright red - since he was/is both an illustrator and fine artist perhaps his concern was unauthorized use of his images. As digital reproduction improves perhaps the aesthetics of an artist's signature will become moot. For reproduction purposes undesired marks such as dates or copyright symbols could easily be retouched digitally - assuming the artist approves of such changes - if a gallery owner or agent believes such retouching will enhance sales. And, in such a case, since only the original would retain the date, etc., perhaps its value would be further enhanced as well. Time will tell. | ||
lois Adams |
As for records, I take Photo of fnished work, Date that, now that I have Comp. I enter it into comp, that's my record and it is ready to be used in art work or printed on Art print paper!I've started to not sell my original, just prints of the original. Original of one is on display in local store. It had won People's Choice Award in Local Art Show. Two years, Owner says he wants another one if I take that one down. Took 5 yrs. to paint! Split Rock Light House 4' by 4' feet! Draws customers attention as they enter, gets much broader coverage then a 'Art Gallery' Would as the people who view it are your average 'Joe'. Good business for the store.too. Have I think $900 on it.lol I'd cry if some one bought it. Maybe I'd better go get it, but then I got to paint another one, problems! | ||
lois Adams |
The sig nature should blend into the art work, It should be part/ printed and part script.My customers always 'look' for my signature, And would feel that the painting was not 'right' with out one. They want their friends to look and to see a signature, that it is an original. I Took a class by JANE JONES of TEX. Was surprised when she had the WHOLE class come look at my signature as the 'correct way' to sign art work, She teaches at a Univ. and in Europe. Do not add date or copywrite/detracts from art work.Except my Photos, which have a title, date, name of artist below.I oil paint, water color, photo, etc. | ||
patinsc |
Lex & Kukana: Have heard many pros and cons on the subject of dating your work. By all means sign it but dates?Kukana you bring up a good point about competition. I have been told by those in the know do not date your work on the front with a signature. As we all need to keep records of our work there must be a date somewhere. Then again, as to the competition problem: one of my "well known" instructors' thoughts on this were;:If it is two or three years old and you want to enter it, take it out, paint a little on it and TADA you just finished it. | ||
Lex |
For now I date and sign my pieces by year only ('99, '00, '01, etc.) and a simple logo of my initials. The date is simply to help me track my own progress. I haven't sold anything yet, won't sell anything I've painted so far (tho' I do give some away to family), and may discontinue dating pieces once I feel I'm proficient enough to sell. But only because that appears to be the "standard" in the U.S. FWIW, I've seen watercolors by a Spanish artist who dated his usual Roman numerals. From his apparent age he may have been schooled in Roman numerals. ;> | ||
Kukana |
Quite often I see artwork signed and dated ie. "Susie Snerd-2000" I can't decide if this is a good thing or not. Anyone know the pros and cons of dating work? Does dated work from say 1999 exempt it from competitions in 2000? Also whether first and/or last names are enough. I notice that some of the more well known watercolorist do not date or add intitials like AWS or NWS even though they can and some do. I'd love to read some insights from any of you. | ||
Carrie Stuart Parks |
Actually, Kukana, I had a wonderful date once with an interesting pastel pencil.... Signing and dating are your copyright record. People will look for them as well as the date you did the work. I feel you need to sign with enough of your name to be serious...only a few like Cher can get away with a single name. I date my work. Occationally we have dinner together.....jeepers, I gotta get out more.... | ||
reye1 |
One way that I have to keep track of my paintings and to compare how I am doing month to month, etc.,is to set up a little Excel spreadsheet with title, inventory number, who bought it (when that happens and if I know)or where it was gifted, date finished, etc. I put those in inventory in BOLD and those that are no longer in inventory in normal font. After you get this going it takes only a few seconds to update it when you finish a painting. It works for me maybe it will for others. Jerry | ||
Kukana |
Thanks Carrie and Jerry. But what about dated work for a competiton? Can 1999 work be entered in a 2001 show? | ||
Carrie Stuart Parks |
Hi K, It depends on the show. If there is a date limit (works completed in the last two years, for example), then a 1999 painting would qualify inless you put a month with the year. If you included a month then it would be taken into account along with the year. The dating refers to the copyright law that says you are protected from the moment of creation in a fixed form til 50 years after your death. You need to establish on the art that moment (year). Of course, if you register your painting in the copyright office, you would probably not need to put a date on the work. But I would anyway. I may be rusty on copyright stuff so you might check out their website. http://www.loc.gov/copyright/ -Carrie | ||
drollere |
copyright law, at least as applied in the usa, does not require artwork to be signed in order to be copyright protected. see the materials at http://fairuse.standford.edu/ it's not necessary to sign with your name. whistler signed his watercolors with a peculiar "cat's paw" or "butterfly" imprint, and burchfield used a kind of letter icon formed from his initials. signing on the back is the best way to date and track your artwork. for a long time i didn't sign or date my paintings because i didn't think they were worth it, but now i regret that as i don't know when i painted them! i now sign the back, with the date, and any comments about when or how the painting was made. signing on the front is typically done for art that is intended for sale, since you want the people who admire your acquisition to see who painted it after it is mounted and framed. otherwise, to confirm the attribution to buyers, the painting must be unframed and unmounted before a gallery can sell or resell it. adding "AWS" or "NWS" just means that you are a "signature member" of the watercolor society, which in turn means that you've had work accepted to a certain number of juried exhibitions. it used to be the style to include these initials in a signature, but it's rapidly becoming "old school" to do so; adding a "copyright" mark is merely pretentious. | ||
drollere |
sorry ... that's "http://fairuse.stanford.edu". | ||
Carrie Stuart Parks |
Hi drollere, I agree that it is not necessary to sign your work on the front to be protected, but I strongly disagree about signing on the back. I do put inventory numbers on the back, but I sign and date on the front so I can see at a glance what the year was that I painted that painting. My patrons seek my name and the date I painted the work. I also name each piece of work. "Untitled #4" just tells someone you can't figure out what that glob of blue in the middle of a red square is, either. The names often sell the work. I hate artistic trends where people tell me something I am doing is no longer "in style" or pretentious. I do add the IWS that I EARNED (no "just" about it) through hard work and by winning the correct number of awards from the correct number of national judges in statewide juried competition. Keep one very important thing in mind--people buy a "Picasso", not a "Cranston Snord". The saying goes "making a NAME for yourself". Even the newest of art investors and gallery gazers know enough to look for your name on the work. -Carrie | ||
LPMullins |
I usually sign and date my paintings on the front ie: LPMullins 9-2000 I decided not to write my name out in full as it would be rather lenthy & distract from the painting. | ||
Kukana |
Thanks for all the input on my original comment. From a clients point of view, lets say you have a dated piece of work, from say 1994, that has been hanging else where now hanging in gallery or show next to one dated 2000. Both great paintings,do you think a patron might not want the older one and opt for one dated more recent, more cutting edge? Good painting is good painting but we aren't talking about an early Picasso, just an early "Sneely Snerdface" | ||
apiper |
I suspect people buy what they like regardless of when it was painted. I agree that each painting should be in a tracking file. I also include the brand of paper and list each paint used by color and brand. Knowledgable buyers usually want to know about quality that went into the painting and need the assurance that none of the paint used is fugative. | ||
gabriel |
attention users! we have fugitive paints on the loose. they are to be considered armed and dangerous, with very colorful wit. -sheriff gabriel. | ||
Kukana |
Just took a class from Frank Webb in Taos and I asked him about dating work. He said he Never does. He sign the front with a painted signature and on the back in pencil signs it again, dates the year, location and that's it. He says thats enough to maintain his copywright and he said he's never had a problem. What a great teacher too! WOW! | ||
ANDIZEE |
i always sign and date on the back of all my paintings....i have trouble signing on the front...i feel it detracts... | ||
Anonymous |
I sign and date all my works on some hardly noticable location on front. I code the date using my own special code just in case of a date limited exhibition. I also put a name for the painting, any commments I want to make and date it more completely on back. Hell, I can't even remember my kids year of birth or my wife's birthday much less the date I finished a painting! | ||
drollere |
picasso did not sign most of his works, nor did monet, pollock, homer or turner; vincent gave up painting his name toward the end; vermeer's canvases have no name, and caravaggio usually signed by inserting his self portrait in the image. a signature such as "copyright 2000 carrie kolinsky NWS all rights reserved" is a double pretension: because it's legally unnecessary, and because it's not relevant to authenticate the work (painted signatures being by far the easiest of many art details to forge). as a design element, a signature is sometimes appealing, especially in etchings or prints done in numbered runs. but the essential point is that a signature on the front of a visual work is *always* a design element: it has no legal force that a signature on the back or a certificate of authenticity does not give. the only reason artists sign their work on the front is so that their name will be right there for everyone to see. *why* they have such a fascination with their own name, or why they think other people might have a similar fascination with their name, are separate issues from authenticity, value, or reputation. | ||
edzzzmuze |
I stopped dating my paintings back in 1987. That's when I took a workshope from Frank Webb. He never dates his paintings & I asked him about it. He said that a potential customer might wonder what was wrong with a painting that was done a few years ago and had not sold yet. It made sense to me at the time, & I've never regretted not signing my name with the "1991" or "99" or whatever... Barbara Nechis rarely adds the date of complettion to her signature either. So I figure I'm in Great company!! :) | ||
Kukana |
Signature Help! I sign my work with my last name only which also happens to be the name of a city...Toronto! My gallery is complaining that customers look at my landscape pictures and say " Oh, that doesn't look like Toronto, Canada". The gallery explains to them that my name is Susan Toronto and that the "Toronto" is my signature. Some of them still don't get it. The gallery is suggesting that I sign differently. I don't like the way my first and last name looks on a painting so I've tossed around the idea of just signing them Kukana which is my Hawaiian name that I grew up with. I don't want my paintings to be unsigned. Im working hard to build a reputation for myself and I want the name reccognition. Help! | ||
anneengw |
Kukana, What about signing them S. Toronto? If they think it means south Toronto, then they might also ask where Kukana is:). It would be easy to add an "S" or maybe you will come to be known as Storonto. | ||
carol |
kukana: i would go with kukana, just my opinion. i think it has an artistic flare about it. | ||
D.Finley |
Hi Kukana, I agree with "Carol". "Kukana" is such a neat and unique name, it would stand out from all others!! Not only that,but it's easy to remember! | ||
Kukana |
I think I'll start signing Kukana. I actually like the way I sign it better too....More me! The transistion will be weird having a stack of paintings signed Toronto and a stack signed Kukana but I need to start sometime. Better now than when I'm famous! I think after this show this weekend I will open up all the paintings and add the name "Kukana" in front of all the "Toronto's" to help the transisition. I just don't have the energy to do it before tomorrow. Thanks all! Kukana | ||
LPMullins |
Hey! My Hawaiian name is "Kanani" !!! I was thinking about having my own craft shop at one time & naming it "Kanani Kreations" but it never materialized... I don't really like signing my work LPMullins, either. Maybe I should do like Kukana & sign my work "Kanani" ??? I had thought of it before, but didn't know how accepted it would be... I'm also trying to think of a good & unique name for my studio which reflects "me"... Kanani's Art Studio has a nice ring to it, too... not trying to steal anybody's elses ideas... really! | ||
D.Finley |
Well geeeee.... I don't have a Hawaiian name (sniff) i'm beginning to feel left out!-Or is this just artistic paranoia LOL!! LP, Kanani,Mullins..... "Kanani Kreations" sounds pretty cool!Why not try that in relation to what you asked me by e-mail? D. | ||
Kukana |
I grew up in Hawaii on O'ahu and Mau'i. My full name is actually Kukanakamelani..Quite a handle but my friends always called me Kukana or Kuk. I just printed off new brochures for carrie and my show this weekend and I printed them all as Susan "Kukana" Toronto so to start introducing the name. I figure by the summer show I have all my art signed Kukana. Thanks folks for your imput. I kind of knew I'd do it...I just need the moral and artistic support that I was on the right track. Love ya all! | ||
Geeky2 |
It does help to sling new ideas past friends, huh, Kukana? You will do great! Jean | ||
LPMullins |
I think you have a great thing going, Kukana!!! Deb... we'll have to see what we can do to get you a Hawaiian name! :) I like the sound of "Kanani Kreations", but I'm not sure how it applies to art... it sounds more like a crafty-type thing to me, so I'm still undecided. | ||
LPMullins |
Kanani is just a nick-name for me... not my actual name & nobody actually calls me Kanani either. But I like it anyway! |
