| Author |
Message |
 
Eric
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 1:30 pm: |  |
The value markers are made by Prismacolor. CJ's sells them in complete sets, in both cool grays and warm grays. I think there's 5 shades of gray in each set, including black. They have two points, one on each end of the marker, one fine and one broad.
Thanks for the tip on the Caran d'ache crayons. I imagine they're very versatile as to what you can do with them. |
Robert
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:51 am: | |
You can also get open stock online. |
Robert
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:49 am: | |
Re. Caran d'ache watercolor crayons--they come is sets of 12, 30, 40 and 84. I was given a set of 40 a few years ago --it comes in a 10X 7 tin that is convienant. In my city every art supply store (there are 3 real art supply stores) carries open stock of all 84 colors. I highly recommend not getting the short sets if you are doing landscape, but buying the colors you think you'll need from open stock and then devising a container. I say this becaue the smaller sets contain even amounts of reds oranges , yellows purples etc and so the array of greens and earths and blues in insufficient. What I've done is use the 40 crayon tin and substitute a landscape palette of crayons (they run about the same individually as they add up to in sets --$1.50 per crayon. There are not many people using them for fine art--mostly for faxce painting at fairs and for advertising graphics. However, I have found that with practice, one can get to know their streghts and use them wisely. They are funny becasue while "coloring" with them (work lightly) the work looks like a child's drawing. But touch a damp #6 robert simmons white sable round and the child's drawing melts into a brilliant watercolor wash. You have to be careful not to overly brush or the colors will intermingle into mud. I almost feel like I am giving away a personal artistic secret since my watercrayon sketchs have become some of moist popular and unique items. Note: Best results are on student grade watercolor pads--specifically Canson Montval (1059 rough is better than cold press) and strathmore 400 watercolor paper. Both can also be purchsed ion 2 2X 30 sheets. The paper accepts the color and wash much better than the expensive paper. |
Robert
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 10:39 am: | |
Value markers!! Can you recommend a specific set (I have very little patience when browsing the pencil / pen dept. of art stores). |
Eric
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 8:50 am: | |
Robert, for plein air, I just bring a sketchpad and a case of markers, which are black and then a set of value markers (gray). The sketch isn't usually a finished composition, it's just an accumulation of things I see and find interesting. I like your idea of using the watersoluble crayons. I think I'm going to try those. So I sketch and also take photos and later use the material for a painting. I agree photos aren't even close to actually being there, but sometimes time is a factor, so the photograph is used. |
Robert
| | Posted on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 5:43 am: | |
Hmm Eric--I hadn't thought about it as fact gathering, like a reporter---I like that--much better and more positive than trying to do a painting in the field and then redoing it to "fix" it later in the studio. I think your insight may be just what I need to adjust my attitude. Thanks.
BTW--How do you do work plein air? |
Eric
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 2:48 pm: | |
Robert, I think the way you're going about it is probably the best way. I made a comment before on one of these threads about "copying" nature or being a "reporter" and not an artist. But it sounds like what you're doing is going out in the field and getting the facts, the raw materials, recording what you observe, and then later, in the comfort of your studio, where you have time to think, plan and design, you put together an artistic piece.
Nature is much better than working from photos, but I believe you can work from photos only if you've spent enough time outdoors to know how things really look. |
Robert
| | Posted on Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 7:31 am: | |
Eric-- as a follow-up--I've actually done some of my best paintings from pencil sketches done on location. One thing--I never take photos. Never. |
Robert
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:39 am: | |
Yes--as of now, I do small (7 X10 to 10 X14) plein air paintings that are more or less literal in composition and then later do 1/2 sheet studio paintings in which I rearrange and seek greater color harmony. My goal is to be able to skip step 2 and produce the final result en plein air, but I'm not there yet. I also haven't like hauling around more than I can carry in a small pack--I hike sometimes milkes before i stop and paint. An easel and big paper is just too much to haul. I also cannopt stand attention from onlookers and the more equipment , the more attention you draw. however, i am about , I feel, to make the leap to plein air only and when in the studio work on figures or still lifes. Ah still lifes--I am beginning to resdiscover these in watercolor (began 45 years ago as a kid painting still lifes in oils). Still lifes in watercolor seem so damn difficult to do well though florals are a snap). |
Eric
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 8:41 am: | |
Robert- After making the sketch, then do you use that to produce a full painting indoors? In other words, do you paint outdoors to gather material and later put it together as a painting? |
Robert
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 6:53 am: | |
Anon--I agree -- a "good" painting done outside often is pale and uninteresting when taken inside. I've heard that artists use umbrellas to shield the paper from the brilliance of the light so they can better gauge true color intesity. I don't want to fool with that. About 1/2 the time i go out, I solve the intensity problem by painting in Caran d'ache watercolor crayons on a (specifically) canson watercolor field journal or a pad of Canson 1059 rough Montval paper (preferred). The crayons are naturally very intense in hue and value and the paper accepts them perfectly. Once applied, go over them with a Robert Simmons white nylon round or similarly springy synthetic brush and you have a very brilliant sketch. |
Anonymous Painter
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:43 am: | |
Just one little tip about painting outside, if you've not done it before: Overemphasize color and value, or you will be very disappointed when you see the paintings inside. The effect of the greater light outside is to adjust our vision, such that color that seems right as we put it on the paper (even after it dries) is much too pale when we're no longer outside.
I used to paint plein air, and hope to do it again soon. So many people make a fuss about it, but for me it really wasn't that complicated, or that different from painting inside. The very large artists' site WetCanvas has a plein air forum, with a thread highlighting many tips on supplies and approaches, but not just for watercolor. Might be useful, though. |
Robert
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 7:09 pm: | |
Sar'ta--Yours seems to be a very solid palette. You won;t get in trouble with a lot of color hisharmony that arrises from too many choices. A single yellow is a great unifyinhg device. Good job. You can basically ignore any workshop presenter's palette and just bring what you are used to. They give these lists for the beginners and for those who want them. Usually they aren't too dogmatic about insisting you use their choices. Talk about chaos--having to change palettes with every workshop. Not a good idea. Master the palette you know. Limited is good. |
Eugene
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 2:54 pm: | |
Sarita
That palette loks extremely large for a plein air watercolorist.
My outdoor palette is very simple
1 warm ane 1 cool red
1 warm and 1 cool blue
a yellow
Burnt sienna
raw sienna
thalo green
don't get encombered with too much equipment or you'll be
exausted , just carrying it arund |
greg
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 12:19 pm: | |
Thanks for all of the encouragement! Watercolor is
definately a different animal.....at least it doesn't always bite...I do love color. I love mixing
color, it is a true passion, and watercolor
is such a beautiful medium. It allows for such wonderful nuances of subtley or big bold statements,
very unlike the opacity of oil. Glazing in oil is
just not the same, for me. I will press onward and someday find my place in it's wonderful world.
I love this forum.......thanks for allowing me in.
:) |
Eric
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:38 am: | |
Here's another thought I just had: Greg, are you good at drawing cartoons? I have an unproven theory that anyone good at drawing cartoons could be successful at a loose style of watercolor. In both you use just a few strokes to suggest a lot of detail. Think of a cartoon character's hair. A couple of strokes suggests a full head of hear; you don't see every strand of hair. Details are understated (and values are overstated) |
Linda
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:26 am: | |
Absolutely continue working at watercolor, Greg. Your work is not "too tight, controlled and boring. not fresh, free, flowing."
Your work is fresh. Just to look at it, it is obvious you love to do it. This love comes through! This is a holy activity to those of us who love to do it. Please continue. |
Eric
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:14 am: | |
Greg, stay with it. My 6th watercolor looked like it was painted by my first grade daughter.
Yes, your work is tight (good color) but so is a lot of watercolor these days. I prefer looser and "free flowing", and if you prefer the looser style, like Tachee said, it will come the more you do it. The goal should be that your style is as natural as your own handwriting.
Obviously, you have talent. |
George
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 10:45 am: | |
Greg, if you are looking for a critique, here’s mine. Yes, continue with watercolor! Yes, you have talent! Your strength is color! Yes, your Illustration background shows up strongly, it’s noticeable even if you don’t tell people. You will overcome that in time.
My guess is that you are younger than most of the other artists on this page. If you keep at it (watercolor), you will be a great watercolor artist someday. I have no doubt about that. |
tachee
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 10:37 am: | |
6?!!!!!!!!!!!! you have done only 6!!!! well heck yeah ya gotta continue. you must. well, only you can answer that. i like your results- have not seen too many cowboy paintings here in ohio, so they are fresh new subject to me. loose? tight? your style will come to you in your own time. usually, in my opinion, you get looser as you get more practice. fresh, free, flowing....might have to write that on my studio walls. keep working. i might not paint every day, but i try to draw every single day. |
greg
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 10:00 am: | |
The reason I posted the three pictures of mine on
this site is because this is it. I have only
painted 6 watercolors in my life.....honest.
these 3 are among the six. I am exploring this
media and I am trying to learn it. I was looking
for everyone's advice to see if I should continue
or if my work is too tight, controlled and boring.
not fresh, free, flowing.....hey that kinda rhymes. |
tachee
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 9:55 am: | |
i disagree with the outdoor only purists. it is the interpretation of what you see that is the mark of a good artist. does not matter if she is out here by my pond or in my studio at 2 a.m. lack of imagination and ability to draw upon memory might get in your way if ya can't paint indoors. i can draw trees, photograph them and take them to the studio to use as inspiration for trees in a painting. i move stuff around from outdoors just like i do with a setup still life. i never leave for a walk without my camera. spring is around the corner and i shall get great shots of spring flowers. which i bring home to the studio and add to my inspiration files. i do not have to go to the actual flower to paint it, nor to enjoy the process and like what i have done. it is not a matter of what is the correct thing. it is a matter of what works for you. if you can only work out of doors to like what you have painted, more power to you! but simply because it is your way, does not mean it is the only correct way. what ever gets ya through the night. |
greg
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 9:49 am: | |
I am taking a class at the Fredericksburg Art School
from John Fawcett. I love his work. I agree about
what you are saying regarding photos. That is why
I am taking this course and hopefully many more.
I don't like being a slave to my photo resources.
I have a Illustration background and that might
explain some of it. I draw from life whenever I can
My biggest problem is when I can paint....it is
night....with a fulltime job, with a 7 year old son, 2 dogs, and six horses, finding daytime hours to be outside painting is a stretch. The times I do
rarely get to paint outside, I enjoy. This workshop will be a godsend for me. |
George
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 9:17 am: | |
Eric said “The same can be said for those who copy nature outdoors: craftsman, not true artists. The word COPY is the key, whether it's from a photo or you're actually there.”
This is the best statement that I have seen on this site. Most artist’s seem so entrapped by the photograph that when they go outside they use a photographic solution as THE solution for reducing nature to a two dimensional surface. As I said earlier, it’s all about “seeing”, and if the only way you can see nature is with a photographic eye, then you are without any true “vision”. |
Eric
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 8:51 am: | |
The same can be said for those who copy nature outdoors: craftsman, not true artists. The word COPY is the key, whether it's from a photo or you're actually there. Artists shouldn't be reporters. Nature (or a photo) rarely gives you a ready-made design. It's up to the artist to change things to make an appealing design.
I'm a firm believer in carefully observing nature outdoors, just be careful about putting every detail in the painting and being too literal with the subject. |
Robert
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 7:17 am: | |
Sarita--
I personally have found that watercolor blocks are highly inferior to sheet paper. For some reason the sizing is different and the tooth is not as pronounced (regardless of brand).**It may be they use cheaper paper or the poreeing into the block destroys the character. Either way, I would use gator board and bulldog clips (or masking tape) to hold the paper down.
That being said, the Lana Rough ( not CP) blocks deemphasize the rough texture and overly sized quality fopunf in the non-block individual individual sheets and as a result are better because of the fact they are "inferior". Ironic. |
Robert
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 7:11 am: | |
Watercolorists who merely copy a good photo, IMHO,
are good craftsmen, not true artists.
No truer words have ever been uttered, Eugene. |
Robert
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 7:06 am: | |
Greg--
What Texas workshop are your taking, and where?
Sarita--
His work is fine, highly skilled--I'm sure he can helo you develop your own approach. As far as his palette, it seems very interesting and useful. I am particulaly enamoured of venetian red--the most opaque watercolor made and the one, oddly enough , that i use as my main red--diluted it is very transparent and it makes great darks with pthalos.
Working outdoors with a real subject is to working in a studio with a photo what watching the olympics is to participating in them. Go fer it. |
greg
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 12:47 pm: | |
Learning is doing in any capacity. I believe.
take the class. |
greg
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 12:44 pm: | |
I am taking a workshop in March in Texas for a week.
I am hoping to paint loose and do a
lot of color experimentation. If nothing else it will be a wonderful much needed vacation and a lot of fun, which will help my studio work. Not to
mention meeting, talking with other artists and networking. |
John Preston
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 11:53 am: | |
Sounds like he's picked a lot of colors that don't move around easily in a wet state...makes sense. Really nice work on his sight. I'm an ex-Annapolitan and was pleasantly reminded by his work. |
marie
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 11:21 am: | |
His palette recommendation is interesting:
Permanent Rose, Cadmium Red, Cadmium Scarlet, Cadmium Orange, Cadmium Yellow, Titanium Yellow, Naples Yellow, Yellow Ochre, May Green, Permanent Green Light (available in Holbein), Oxide of Chromium, Viridian, Cerulean Blue, Cobalt Blue, Ultramarine Blue, Ultramarine Violet, Cobalt Violet Deep Hue, Cobalt Violet Light, Venetian Red, Indian Red, Mars Violet (available in Holbein), and Chinese White.
Several of the pigments -- titanium yellow, chromium oxide green, indian red -- are among the most opaque you can find. I usually don't fuss too much over what's transparent and opaque ... but ... wow ... there must be a good reason for what he's doing.
Also, the only synthetic organic is permanent rose -- and maybe the Holbein greens.
Lots of opaques, not many stainers. His palette would make me think that he does lots of lifting and reworking ... and yet the photos of his work don't look that way. |
sarita
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 10:53 am: | |
Robert
The following is the description of the workshop taken from www.leeboyton.com "Escape the winter doldrums while improving your landscape painting skills. This workshop will focus on training the eye to see the color of sunlight in this semitropical environment. We will use the Impressionist palette of colors to capture the beauty of the inlet and beaches in the area. We will also explore and apply compositional theories that will enhance the students’ work."
Location: Tequesta, Florida (beautiful area)
Dates: March 6 -9 9-4pm
Cost: $400
Register directly with the Lighthouse Center www.lighthousearts.org, or call Colleen Burch at (561) 748-8737.
Sounds luscious :)
After reading your comments, I am seriously rethinking the workshop. As I've said workshops
are scarce in my area. If I want to be a serious painter, this would definitely motivate and maybe
improve my art. Please visit his website and let
me know what you think of his paintings. I also
would be interested in any comments on his palette. Thanks!! |
marie
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 10:34 am: | |
Sarita, I think you should practice in your back yard and then take the workshop.
Although plein air work is not my strong point, I still enjoy it and learn from it. I always feel like it is time well spent.
Here are some things that have worked for me:
* Keep your equipment and materials simple. Mobility is important, and you don't want to have to spend 20 minutes getting everything set up. My plein air kit consists of:
-- 12 whole pans in a metal box
-- Round sable travel brushes: #6,#8,#10,#12.
-- Small, flat nylon brush for loosening paint.
-- Paper towels/kleenex
-- water bottle (I use a nalgene bottle for backpackers.)
-- Small spray bottle with water
-- Pencil (with a cheap plastic sharpener)
-- Eraser
-- Watercolor block, not too big
-- Sketchbook
-- Sunscreen
-- Insect repellent
-- Floppy hat to keep the sun out of my eyes
All of this goes into a small backpack that folds out into a seat.
* Don't try to paint in full sun. Look for a spot with some shade. This will make it easier to judge value and color.
* When you are getting started, try doing watercolor sketches of simple things -- maybe a single flower or a leaf or a tin can -- instead of a whole painting. You'll have enough of a challenge getting accustomed to working outside -- washes dry really fast, light can be strange, the wind blows. Don't set the bar too high at first.
Have fun! |
Eugene
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 10:18 am: | |
Sarita, For most of my career I've painted outdoors. It's the
ONLY way to learn landscape w/c painting. Now, because of old
age, I paint completely from memory and photos. I would not
be able to paint in the studio, if I had not learned to paint en
plein air. There's a world of difference in using a photo for
reference than merely copying it. Painting on the spot teaches
you what happens in those dark black shadows that are in
photos. Watercolorists who merely copy a good photo, IMHO,
are good craftsmen, not true artists. GO FOR THE WORKSHOP.
Don't expect to bring home masterpieeces-- but you'll learn a
lot.
Your instructor will send a supply list. |
Robert
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 7:01 am: | |
Upon further reading your questions sarita, I would say that plein air painting can be very frustrating without some initial guidance and actually participating in a group experience can give you lots of direction and impetus. Take the workshop. |
Robert
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 6:58 am: | |
Sarita--
I hadn't read all of the comments before posting. I could not disagree more and wonder how someone can be such an expert on plein air workshops if he doesn't condone them. Unless the person has taken Lee Boynton, he knows nothing. Consider that all of the great watercolorists of the past paintied plein air. Consider that it is nonsense to say a workshop doesn't teach you too see. Take the workshop and don't overly trust this forum. |
Robert
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 6:55 am: | |
Sarita--
Plein Air painting will free you from the tight constrictions studio work encourages. Besides, painting froma photograph is not 100% painting, since a lot of the hard thinking is done for you. Post the details, I may want to take the workshop too. |
George
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:50 pm: | |
Anything with a rectangular hole in it will work. Some people use a slide case (punch out the film), others use a small mat (the type you frame a picture with), or you can make one out of a piece of heavy construction paper (cut with scissors). It helps if the proportions are about the same as the proportions of the watercolor paper. Move it in, and out, from you to enlarge or reduce the scene in front of you. |
sarita
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:40 pm: | |
Thanks everyone!! I appreciate the input. George you are right on. Thanks for saving me time, money and probably total frustration. Hopefully this weekend if the weather is beautiful
I will try my hand at painting outside. One more
question. What would help me focus or SEE a scene - some type of viewer. What size would you make this viewer?? |
John Preston
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 12:51 pm: | |
George is right, it really is about seeing. You might e-mail Mr.Boynton to see how he approaches things. Painting outdoors is SO different but SO valuable if you can get the hang of it. You might try just drawing outdoors a few times to get the hang of translating all that space to 2D and how to deal with the various distractions. |
tachee
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 11:59 am: | |
george hit the nail on the head. i have never taken an outdoor workshop because i have a great deal of trouble concentrating when out of doors. difficult when i am alone, put me in a group and i would be a goner. paint that tree...focus focus.... oh look at the pretty butterfly...
yeah. try it first. for me, harder to master than watercolors. |
George
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 11:39 am: | |
Wow, sarita, there are so many variables to be considered when answering a question like this. I don’t know Boynton, so can’t offer any advice there. I do think that you need to get out and work outdoors first. Take a lawn chair right out into your own back yard and do a painting and see how you like it. If you spend a lot of money for the workshop, and end up not able to see any structure in that mass of visual data that the great outdoors floods your brain with, it will be wasted money. If that is the level that you are on, then any plein air workshop would be wasted money, Boynton or not.
Painting on location is a lot different than painting from a photograph. You will have to teach yourself to see in a new way. Plein air workshop teachers tend not to spend much time, if any time, on learning how to “see”. Instead they tend to spend a lot of time on learning how to paint, using the outdoors as a subject in place of a still life. For some idiotic reason that I don’t understand, most of these teachers have forgotten that it’s not easy for a beginner to reduce three dimensions down to two dimensions. Or, to reduce ten thousand leaves and branches in a single tree down to just a few brush strokes.
Yeah, try it first. |
sarita
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 9:59 am: | |
I am seriously debating about a plein air workshop that is in my area next month. The instructor is Lee Boynton (www.leeboynton.com) This would be my second watercolor workshop and I have never painted plein air. Since this workshop cost a "chunk of change", I'm hesitant.
The workshop is from 9-4pm, for 4 days. I'm not even sure if my neck and back are up to the challenge.
Should I first try painting outside, see how I like it - then decide. I know it is important in an artist's growth to try new approaches. Sometimes you just can't get the feeling of a subject from a photograph. Since workshops, any
workshops are scarce in my area, it would be a shame to miss it.
What does one need to paint outside, besides paint,water and paper. Any advice, tips on supplies, past experiences would greatly be appreciated. If anyone has taken a workshop with
Lee Boynton would you share your comments. |
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