| Author | Message | ||
  guest Unregistered guest |
I've tried Sennelier and maybe it was good stuff in the old days, but I don't like the chalky tones. French watercolors are well, washy anyway. I haven't tried M Graham. Holbeins work like butter, silky butter but actually, I like some roughness. For that, DS are quirky but interesting and American Journey (aka DaVinci) have some fun colors. Plus you can squeeze out a huge blob on the palette and make a nice coffee-thickness wash for deep darks. | ||
Fem Unregistered guest |
I'm new but I thought I'd dive right in. I have never gotten the big deal about cadmiums being opaque. Aby paint is opaque if applied thickly. Cadmiums are highly concentrated so it easier to paint them thickly because it takes more work to dilute them. Once diluted they are as transparent as anything else. And they really do make the best yellows. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Cadmium yellow light and Cadmium Red light by Holbein: Yesterday I bought a new tube of my standard Winsor & Newton cadmium Scarlet. This has been a staple red with a tinge of orange--a great mixer. Well Winsor Newton has changed the pigment source or something because it is now much more orange, too orange to function as a red and so I was stuck with finding another. I tried Holbein cadmium Red Light and WOW--talk about high quality. The pigment is so intense as to make my heart flutter. This is a high quality paint. The Cadmium Yellow light is just as good. Most cadmium yellows tend to veer slightly greenish in washes--very impeceptibly so but I notice. Also most are chaulky opaque mixers. Not so with the Holbein --it is a beautiful mixer with blues and is pure brilliant yellow with no tacking toward green. Handprint lists Holbein's as being made from a different form of cadmium yellow pigment that differs from the standard in that it doesn't have any green undertone at all. I concur. I am so excited because these are two staples of my palette and far better than any other I've tried. Worth the extra expense totally. (After struggling with the Sennelier's that I thought were so good at first, I've returned to cadmiums. And man am I happy I did. Handprint says the health risks are actually minimal for watercolorists. It's the pastelist who breath the dust that are at risk.) | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 104 Registered: 10-2006 |
correction--I "listened" to NPR, not listed! | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 103 Registered: 10-2006 |
Kisha: "They are richly pigmented, feel very traditional in their varied grainness, and flow beautifully."--well said. This is how I would describe my limited experience. Now I'm excited. I've got an order on its way from Joe's and they are my supply source, outside of Art Media in Portland, Oregon, and Art Media doesn't carry Sennelier. I just listed to the NPR post, and I agree, the fact that it is handmade in small quantities by one family makes it more desirable. Thanks for your postings. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Reposted for accuracy: WH2O--I just got back from a third trip to the art supply store and bought my complete palette in Sennelier. I've begun a painting and for the first time feel as if the paint is working completely with me. As with all brands --the hues are not exactly like other brands, but they are beautiful. They are richly pigmented, feel very traditional in their varied grainness, and flow beautifully. The fact that they are handmade in a little shop n Paris adds to their charm. Also, on the actually display, the lightfastness of each tube is designated above each tube. Handprint is way off on this one when it accusing them of hiding the lightfastness rating. Three tubes are given the fugitive rating--all violets. I checked the Wilcox guide on each color I bought and each said things like "Superb, totally lightfast, handles beautifully, highest quality etc). | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
WH2)--I just got back from a third third to the art supply store and bought my complete palette in Sennelier. I've begun a painting and for the first time feel as if the paint is working completely with me. As with all brands --the hues are not exactly like other brands, but they are beautiful. They are richly pigmented and flow beautifully. The fact that they are handmade in a little shop n Paris adds to their charm. Also, on the actually tube display, the lightfastness of each tube is designated above each tube. Handprint is way off on this one. I checked the Wilcox guide on each color I bought and each said things like "Superb, totally lightfast, handles beautifully, highest quality etc). | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 102 Registered: 10-2006 |
Kisha--I'm the one who asked about Sennelier paints on a previous post. I took a class from Arne Westerman and he paints exclusively with them. I have one tube and, like you, it really "rings my bell." And, like you, I am reluctant to try other colors because I have lots of paint on hand. But you've kind of confirmed what I suspected...I better try other colors. I find their cad red light to be a highly concentrated pigment that doesn't dry out as readily. It takes so little to go so far and mixes really nicely with my other pigments. Thanks for sharing... | ||
Anonymous Unregistered guest |
That NPR audio is fascinating--one woman said coming to the shop was a pilgrimage for her. Thanks for posting the link A.N. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
I guess I am on a Sennelier binge--I went back and got burnt sienna, raw umber, raw sienna, burnt umber and lemon yellow. These are very traditional earths, not too bright, but very smooth and earth and warm. The pigments are seem to granulate slightly and differently than one another. I also got their color chart and can clarify some misinformation on Handprint.com. He says they do not rate certain colors because they are fugitive. Wrong. They give their own ratings--most are 3 stars highest and if the pigment hasnpt been rated by the ATSM they specify also "not rated' (by the ATSM. Some of their pigments are fugitive and are clearly marked ")" on the color chart--fugitive. This is because they are offering some traditional pigments like carmine, rose madder, rose dore, and alizarin. Honestly, almost every maker has a few fugitives in the red violet realm and Sennelier, at least, is open and honest about it--calling them "FUGITIVE" outright! I've never fallen in love with a brand of paint before but I just love the way they handle--they add honey which helps keep them moist and fluid--but not an excessive amt. as with M. Graham---I prefer them vastly to the Graham paints I have purchased. They seem to be loaded with pigment and each seems to have a different consistency allowing the pigment's character to emerge. If I didn;t have a stockpile of paints, I'd order my whole palette in Sennelier, and may do so anyway. I hate to abandon my stockpile of other brands, but Darn these ring my bell! Thanks again Marie (and Bill). | ||
A.N. Unregistered guest |
Here's the link http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5581725 | ||
A.N. Unregistered guest |
Recently NPR did a special on the Sennelier shop. They supplied paints to most of the impressionists as well as inventing the oil pastel for Picasso. Thus many or most of the great paintings that have been selling in the hundreds of millions are painted with Sennelier paints. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Marie-- On your mention of French Vermillion I went to the art supply store and purchased Sennelier "French Vermillion", "Sennelier Yellow Light", and "Sennelier Yellow Deep". I did some preliminary studies and mixes and couldn't be happier with the results. Very brilliant, good mixers, transparent. These are excellent cadmium replacements. Thanks for putting me on this track. Someone else the other day mentioned Sennelier too. These are good handling paints. | ||
Raliegh Intermediate Member Username: Raliegh Post Number: 67 Registered: 8-2006 |
I had a dear friend while oil painting he became so engrossed he drank the turpinetine instead of his water. After having his stomach pumped the Drs. repeated tried to find out why he wanted to commit suicide. Then they told him they couldn't release him until he ate their hospital issued hamburger. A staunch vegetarian, he thought now they were trying to kill him. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
The first watercolor artist I ever met (I was doing acrylic back then) told me she put her brush in her mouth for many years until she found out about the toxicity of the paints. She seemed very concerned about what might happen to her because of the habit. I also have heard of many watercolor artists who have picked up the water cup (used to clean the brush) by accident, thinking it was the nearby coffee cup, and drank much of the brew of toxic pigments before they realized what they had done. | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 161 Registered: 8-2006 |
Oh, that's funny, Jay. ROFL. :-) | ||
Jay Unregistered guest |
That thing about repointing brushes with your mouth....I remember seeing that at handprint, the first reference to it I can recall. Not only is it something I'd never thought of doing, I'd never even consider it! It's just gross -- ewwwwwwwwww!!! I can just hear Mom in the background saying "You don't know where that Kolinsky's tail's been!" (Or the pigment either, for that matter!) *LOL* Surely there's better ways of 'putting yourself into the painting' without going to that extreme. ~;) /Jay | ||
Garydoc Intermediate Member Username: Garydoc Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2006 |
I posted about the transparency before reading this thread. My only comment about cadmium toxicity relates to how you expose yourself to the element. If you ever put your brushes into your mouth to reshape them, you are better to drop ALL toxic chemicals from your pallette. If not, then your exposure would only be as discussed below, or through open skin, and that would be pretty far fetched as a vector! Gary | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 155 Registered: 8-2006 |
I like the cadmiums, and I agree with A.N. about the toxicity. The hazard is pretty minimal in watercolor. In addition to Winsor Red, you might want to look at the Sennelier French Vermilion (which is not real vermillion) as an alternative. | ||
A.N. Unregistered guest |
Opacity in cadmiums is relative. Many of the replacement pigments are just as opaque if not moreso. Some of the cadmiums, especially Holbein's, are relatively speaking, as transparent as you can get in these colors. Toxicity is a concern if the pigments are airborne as in a mist from an air brush or dust from pastels. Environmental pollution--the amts. are probably too miniscule to matter. I'd say stick with your cadmiums. I believe it was Robert who pointed out that handprint states that W/N Cadmium Scarlet (their Cad. Red light) is semitransparent. I bought a tube and it is. A great addition . I even convinced a major workshop artist to switch to it by giving him a squirt from my tube. I also find Holbein cad. yellow light to be as transparent as Winsor yellow. (Winsor yellow and winsor red would be logical cadmium replacements). | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
I've decided to replace my cadmium yellows and reds with other pigments. I will do this because of the toxicity, the environment, but mostly because of opacity. Any suggestions, experiences? |
