| Author | Message | ||
  Eugene Advanced Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 180 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks for the kind advice. Bonnie, there is some sky color in the cows but it's too subtle to be picked up by my camera. This has just been a learning experience for me. Next, I'm trying one with all cool colors. I'm not giving up watercolor, but the change is fun. I've done 5 small acrylics in the last month--popped them into plein air fraames and sold four of them. They're so much easier to frame than watercolors. | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2006 |
Eugene: I like it a lot. What if you put a little of the green in the sky? It looks like you have and it works really well. If it bothers you, put a little more in. I personally don't think it needs it. Or, instead, how about just a touch of the sky color in the white of the cows. The sky would be reflecting off them too. This painting just makes me feel really good. | ||
Eugene Advanced Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 179 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eric, The green bothers me too. | ||
Eric Unregistered guest |
Eugene, I like it, but I'm not sure if the foreground with the green grass and the cows integrates into the rest of the painting. Is that why you're not sure you like it? But I like that you painted the sky a unique color. | ||
Eugene Advanced Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 178 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eric. Here's the acrylic I was workng on with a limited warm palette. Not sure if I like it, but it's different. The original isn't nearly as pink as this. I couldn't seem to get the true color with a photo. 11x14 on canvas  | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Raleigh--would you mind repeating the specifics of the advice found here that gave you a new artistic outlook? Thanks-- | ||
Raliegh Intermediate Member Username: Raliegh Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2006 |
When I switched to a limited palette thru a suggestion found here, I ended up with some of my best work ever. Perhaps we've gone full circle to color vs. values [again] personally I lean towards value and unity throughout. | ||
Eric Unregistered guest |
Eugene, I'll be interested in seeing that painting. It's coincidental that you've reached this point trying to use color dominance because that's also something I've been more aware of in the past month also. I've been using fewer colors, sometimes only three and making one dominant. | ||
Eugene Advanced Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 174 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eric, what you say is true. I just finished perusing an article in an art mag-- "The best of 2006". Nearly every one of them was cool (all blue tones) or warm (all red, brown, yellow tones). As I page through art books and magazines, I've begun to realize that all the work that I like best leans either one way or the other. But maybe this is just me. I'm now finishing a small acrylic landscape in which I'm using only reds, browns, yellows, warm greens. even the sky is orange. Different, but I like it. I'll post it when it's completed. | ||
Eric Unregistered guest |
I realize this thread has veered off away from Eugene's point at the beginning. Whitewater mentioned "Part of painting is learning to see the colors." What Eugene is talking about, if I'm comprehending correctly, is painting colors you DON'T see. Using your imagination to use colors that in reality aren't there. For example, making a sky purple, instead of blue in order to help establish a dominance of color which can lead to making a painting unique or special. | ||
Rekha Advanced Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 169 Registered: 8-2006 |
WWC, this is why I directed people to look at Susan Sarback's book in another thread. It seems your eyes fatigue and you do get to see other colours but if you keep moving your eyes side to side you would see spectal colours. | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 132 Registered: 10-2006 |
Part of painting is learning to see the colors. It isn't that there isn't a color dominance in reality. There is. It is something we have to train our eyes to see. The 17th was my daughter's birthday. After all of the candles on the cake were lit I was looking at all of the yellow light and decided to really observe how I would paint such a thing. I was shocked as my eyes started seeing the red and blues and grays. It was absolutely stunning--I had passed on wine--the colors were really there. Everything you look at contains the full spectrum, however reduced it is by the influence of other colors. You have to train yourself to see. | ||
Eric Unregistered guest |
Regarding Eugene's comments at the beginning of this thread: More and more I'm realizing how important color, or at the very least, temperature dominance is. It unifies the painting and resolves conflict with color. A strong aspect of Webb's paintings is unity. Too often using the actual color (local color) of the things you see result in somewhat boring paintings. They may be nice, pleasant, competent paintings, but as Eugene says, might not be special. To solve the problem of painting the colors you see rather than using imagination, when using a photograph I'll photocopy it to make it black and white. This frees my mind to make things any color I want to make it. Frank Webb: "Don't paint what is, paint what could be, or should be." | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
I Know a lot has been said about temperature, but, though I understand that the blue side of the spectrum is cool and the orange side warm and although I also understand that it is all relative (there can be such a thing as a warm blue in comparison to a cool blue though all blues are cooler than violets) I don't personally think in terms of warm or cool. I think in terms of bluer or yellower. ETC. If you weren't trained that way, as some of us weren't, it becomes a lingo we can't relate to. I am sure it is useful, but I can attest, not essential to understanding how to make good art. I was at a paint out recently in which I was painting a white house in direct sunlight (with pronounced shadows). I made the house yellow orange and the shadows I charged with all sorts of violets and blues. Someone came along and commented that she loved the way I used "so many cools to complement a warm dominated painting." I of course appreciated the positive feedback, but I can;t helo but saying how weird her comment seemed to my ears. I never thought of it in that way and though I understood what she was saying and why, it sounded so strange applied to my work. I almost wish she hadn't said it because I don;pt want to think in terms of warms or cools, but in terms of color groupings--it works for me and is no better or worse than warm vs cool lingo, IMHO. | ||
Rekha Advanced Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 168 Registered: 8-2006 |
Wow, I feel so fortunate that I can learn so much in this forum! Thank you for all the information | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Gary and Marie, thank you for the information. | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 198 Registered: 8-2006 |
Garydoc explained the cataract business far better than I can. The only thing I can add from the article is an example of two of Monet's paintings of the same subject at the same time of day and the same year -- one painted before cataract surgery and the other after. The one painted before the surgery was in deep yellows, oranges, browns, and greens. In the painting done after the surgery, greens, blues, and violets predominated. The article also said that his color vision was so compromised before the surgery that he had to label the paints on his palette in order to distinguish them. | ||
Garydoc Intermediate Member Username: Garydoc Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2006 |
My mistake, the package on my daylight bulbs says the color temp is 6500K. Gary | ||
Garydoc Intermediate Member Username: Garydoc Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2006 |
George, if I may, the effect of cataracts on various painters, especially Monet, follow the actual changes in the crystalline lens of the eye during the development of the cataract. First there is a gradual shift of perception toward the yellow-brown-warm side of the spectrum as brunescence occurs. Then there is a gradual loss of definition in detail as visual acuity is compromised by the increasing sclerosis of the lens. Nowadays, no one lets their cataracts progress to the point where driving vision is compromised, let alone needs to stop painting, as Monet had to. Keep seeing your Optometrist (a plug for my guys!) until you and s/he agree that its time to have them cared for. It's a pretty damn simple procedure today. Rekha, the incandescents are HOT, HOT, HOT! They burn a ton of BTU's for the same light, creating heat pollution and toasting your paper! The new screw in daylight flourescents are not too expensive, burn only about 1/3 of the wattage, are cool enough to plug 6 or 7 100 watt equivalents into a small room, and are wonderful to paint under. Make sure you use 'daylight' and not 'cool white' or some other temperature rating. The 'black body' temperature is about 5000 Kelvins in a daylight bulb. Gary | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Marie, this is really interesting as I’ve been told that I’m growing cataracts. Is it possible to give a short summary about what the book has to say of the effect of cataracts on painting. | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 197 Registered: 8-2006 |
I have a book titled "The Eye of the Artist" that has a series of essays about famous artists' visual perception. It includes articles about the effect of cataracts and so forth. Anyhow, one of the articles is titled "A Matter of Illumination". It's more focused on how museums should adapt their lighting to specific artists than vice versa. The author, however, points out at least one example of an artist specifically gearing a painting to where it would be displayed. In the 15th century, Ghirlandaio evidently took into account the color of the stained glass when he painted a fresco in Santa Maria Novella. | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 196 Registered: 8-2006 |
I recall the same thing as George. Let me see if I can find some sources. | ||
Rekha Advanced Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 167 Registered: 8-2006 |
How devious? Any names? | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 195 Registered: 8-2006 |
I am just now realizing how critical lighting is to the outcome of a painting. In fact, most of my paintings that have gotten critical acceptance have been done under very specific lighting circumstances - either outdoors or in a particular studio in town. I don't think it's a coincidence. It's odd; I never made the connection until that thread about earth colors got started. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
That’s a great question. I read that in the days of gas light the artist would sometimes create the painting in the very dim light that it would be seen in at the gallery, rather than create it in a room full of windows. Today we see those same paintings in a brightly lit art museum. We don’t get to see them as they were intended to be seen. | ||
Rekha Advanced Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 166 Registered: 8-2006 |
Bonnie, I am no expert at critiquing paintings, but tell me, do the paintings in the days when they were done in candle light different from what they are today? | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 130 Registered: 10-2006 |
While researching the light issue, I kept finding statements that you couldn't get true full spectrum in incandescent lights. I just did a quick search and found a site naturallighting.com which explains it a little. These things change all the time and I'm certainly not an expert on the issue. Ott lite makes lamps that are fluorscent full spectrum for those who don't want to put in fixtures. | ||
Rekha Advanced Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 165 Registered: 8-2006 |
Incandescent. Why? Should that make a difference? | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 129 Registered: 10-2006 |
They are similar. Are your "daylight lamps" fluorscent or incandescent? Bonnie | ||
Rekha Advanced Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 163 Registered: 8-2006 |
WWC, are these the same lights as 'daylight lamps'? I ask because I am house-bound and bought what they call here daylight lamps. | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 192 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks! I just ordered some of the compact vita-lites. I'm going to see how they work in regular fixtures before I invest in any rewiring. I'm coming to the realization that my studio lighting is less than adequate. | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 128 Registered: 10-2006 |
First you have to make a decision on the type of fluorescent fixtures you are dealing with or installing. There are T12, T8, and T5. The older fixtures are T12 and the newer T8 are recommended because the flicker is reduced, among other things. The T5 fixtures are shorter and don't come in the 48" size. So we made the decision to install the T8 fixtures. I would have like to have tried Ott lites, but they only come in the T12 size. I then found Vita lites, which were the precursors of the Ott lites. They were developed under the direction of Dr. Ott. They are $12+ each, so I only ordered eight of them. They took a while to reach me and then one of them came broken and had to be replaced, so I decided to try some Phillips "sunshine" tubes in the other fixtures. I put the Vitalites on one side of my studio (the side I paint on) and the Sunshine lights (which were more like $6 each) on the other side. The walls of my studio are a light blue gray. On the Sunshine side the wall color looks more purple and on the vitalite side they do not reflect any light off the walls and they look more blue/gray. Since the studio is on the north side of the house, I never get sunlight on the walls so I don't know which is actually closer to real sunlight. The "sunshine" lights actually give me more light to work. I love them for matting and I always move my paintings back and forth as I am working, to analyze them under the different lights. I actually have two lights on one switch (one of each), so I've never had just one set of lights on without the other. If I had to choose one over the other, without more careful analysis, I would choose the "sunshine" lights for overall ambient lighting. It gets even more complex because I have incandesent "natural" night in the studio also. Bonnie | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 191 Registered: 8-2006 |
Whitewatercolor, thanks for the info on the lighting. I'm getting the impression that there are lots of definitions of "full spectrum" lighting. Many companies claim that their solution is full spectrum, and the competition isn't. Do you have any more detailed specs on what kind of full spectrum lighting you are using? | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 127 Registered: 10-2006 |
For many years I toned down my watercolors because they looked too garish to me when I used pure pigments. I painted in the studio and would use glazes to tone them down. When I hung them in galleries and shows I could see that they looked "toned down" compared to the other paintings. But when I started painting plein air, the paintings seemed to have some additional aspect that made them stand out. I even won a Judge's award and People's Choice Award in the first Regional Plein Air Show in our area, judged by a former president of the Plein Air Society of America--with a watercolor! I finally decided that it was the light. So when I remodeled my studio I did a google search for studio lighting and found some suggestions from others about full spectrum lighting. I installed lots of full spectrum lighting in my studio and there was instantly a definite change in my paintings. No more toning down. I may use glazing to achieve color dominance or bring the painting together, but it is now done with pure pigments not pallette gray. | ||
Whitewatercolor Advanced Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2006 |
I find color dominance very important. | ||
Marie Advanced Member Username: Marie Post Number: 190 Registered: 8-2006 |
I usually try to make one temperature and one value predominate. Often one temperature will predominate, but the most important part of the painting will be of the opposite temperature. When working under incandescent light, I find it *much* easier to make cools predominate. I'm beginning to think that the warm light ia responsible for some of my troubles with mud in studio pieces. | ||
Eugene Advanced Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 173 Registered: 8-2006 |
I’ve just finished perusing one of Frank Webb’s books and have come to the conclusion that one of the things I must give more attention is color dominance. Most of his work (and that of other good artists) has one color or temperature that is dominant. This adds a lot of strength and interest. I often tend to use the colors I see, instead of using my imagination. This might lead to a good representation of the subject, but it lacks the spark that makes t special. Comments please. |
