| Author | Message | ||
  drollere |
"industry standard" doesn't matter to anything and won't hold up in a claims court, especially when your "friend" testifies about it. the key is what was explicit, implicit or wholly unclear from the advertising or sale documents you used to negotiate the sale/transfer with this specific client. it seems to me entirely reasonable that a naive buyer would assume that the image size is the relevant pricing dimension, and the matte and framing are extra materials and labor costs that are estimated at dimensions suitably proportional to the image. it's a matter of wording -- "price for 16"x20" framed dimensions" is different from "price for a framed 16"x20" image." | ||
Dee |
A few years ago I sued a lady for a mural. The mural started out 1/3 the size of the finished product. (kept changing her mind). I was such a novice at that time, and I knew this lady for over 20 years....so i didn't feel a contract was necessary. In fact, i told her I was giving her a price break. I charged her 1/2 price of the usual price. We had been friends and our kids were friends. So....to make a long story short, even after I told her that the increase in size would increase the cost she had no problem with it....until the bill came. She denied my stating the product would be 3 times more due to the increase in size. She became real *nasty* and refused my attempts to rectify the situation by offering to split the difference. She then refused to return my calls.......so I went to a lawyer friend and he said to jack up the amount and charge her for items that you weren't charging her for before. So I did because I didn't charge milage (she lived out of town), paints, toll fees, hourly rate for the drive time, etc. All legitimate costs, but trying to keep expenditures down for a *friend*. Then on to small claims court. I won, but not the full amount asked.....I won 1/2 the amount I sued for. The reason the judge didn't give me the full amount was:..."You must do a contract with everybody....even your own mother to keep eveyone on the same page". So, my first big mural and i ended up in court...but I won. And she was SO upset that she threatened to appeal. Anyway, to make a long story short. She wrote on her first check "final payment" and the second check "final payment". Now i get the idea that the "final payment" statement doesn't matter. My attorney friend says it doesn't mean a thing. So I cashed those checks. I may try it on my next house payment and see what the bank does. Good luck | ||
jandrle |
Hi all... After reading all of your posts, printing them out and mulling them over and talking to artist friends I have decided that I would probably be rolling the dice in front of a judge. I have been nonbusinesslike about commissions because it has given me the feeling of having an out if, for some reason I feel I can't please the client. That has only happened once, in the drawing stage... so it really isn't a concern I guess. Time to decide that I am doing this as a business and approach it that way. So, do I cash his check for partial payment??? Jane | ||
Mike Scott |
Jane, good luck with this matter. I would be pretty angry if I were in your shoes; probably feels like a real slap in the face. If you have a high probability of winning in court, it's worth pursuing out of principle. If not, then you may have to ask yourself how much this is worth; learn from the experience, then make changes to prevent this sort of thing from occurring in the future, then move on. Please don't be hard on your husband. Good luck. | ||
jandrle |
I see... No rain on my parade. I would never go into court unless I was certain I could win. This is why I decided to post this problem, to get a variety of opinions and points of view. My policy has always been to never take on a fight I am not confident I can win. an additional piece of information... when deciding on the size to order he first wanted a huge painting. I told him it would something over $700. He thought he needed to rethink that. I told him that he could use $2.00 per square inch as a guide to figure the cost for whatever size he wanted. He could think about it, decide what he wanted to spend and call me when he decided. My commission sheet only goes to 16 x 20 and I don't state the $2 per square inch price because it doesn't work on very small work... probably a mistake, too. Actually, I use standard mats for commissions unless instructed otherwise, and the image of a standard 16 x 20 is slightly over $2. per square inch. I agree it is important to be clear and because of this I will rework my price list. He had enough information to know what size he should expect... can't do much more than tell him a per square inch price. I felt sorriest for my poor husband who delivered it and didn't really have a clue. Jane | ||
Dake |
If the agreement and your advertizing stated 16x20 inclusive of frame you have no problem, if "inclusive" is not stated the actual image HAS to be the stated size. Suture illustrates the point well....given his class in this field theres little wonder. | ||
SutureSelf |
Jane, let's say your painting was the size of a postage stamp, but you framed it to 16x20. Would the client be justified in withholding payment? How about if it were the size of one of those "your name on a grain of rice" things. Would he be justified then? the point is that if your commission agreeement called for a 16x20 painting and had verbiage to the effect that "price includes mat and frame," I, as a client would expect a 16x20 image inside a larger mat. Does the commission agreement explicitly state that the framed size would be 16x20? If so, what does the agreement say about the image size? Are you a painter or a framer? Is the client paying for the painting or the frame? Speaking personally, my commission agreement has separate clauses for image size and framing. That way, the client knows what each of those will be. I don't mean to rain on your parade, but from the way you describe the situation, and without more information, it seems to me that the client is in the right on this one. I hope, for your sake, that I'm wrong. If you bring the client to small-claims court, make sure you and your witness tell the truth. The judge will sort it out. Good luck, Jerry Fried | ||
jandrle |
I actually thought of that... the situation seems that absurd. If the guy hadn't written "payment considered in full upon cashing of this check" I wouldn't have pursued it, but I get the sense he is in the habit of pulling this stunt counting on people deciding that it is not worth the effort to go after him... Thanks for the laugh. Jane | ||
Dake |
Sounds like a fun job for "Judge Judy" | ||
jandrle |
Hi all... I am in the position of having to sue a man for $135. Not a huge sum, more on principle. Last January I painted a 16 x 20 for him, the price guidelines on my price sheet are for "matted" or "framed". Common sense to me indicates that the frame also includes the mat. Well, he got out a tape measure and measured the image inside the mat and would only pay for that size. My husband delivered the painting, and not knowing what to do, left it. After repeated attempts to communicate with the client, he has held steadfast and also refuses to return the painting. He has accused me of false advertising. I consulted an attorney friend of mine who advised me that I most likely will win if I take him to small claims court. I know how to do this myself so have decided to go forward. A watercolor artist friend of mine has agreed to go with me to testify that it is the industry standard in watercolor to include the mat in the stated size... any advice on printed references about framing and the sizes of watercolors? You all have such a wealth of knowledge, my attorney friend said one witness was all I should take, more would make the judge mad. Having some written material documenting this might be helpful though. Advice, suggestions welcome. First time this has ever happened to me in over ten years. Anything is possible. Thanks, Jane |
